WindAndWater

Prices For Hard To Get Plugs And Rationality

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9 hours ago, DaveC said:

My opinion holds the same weight as anyone else’s here. Moderating the forum has no bearing on thread content. You don’t want to argue about the rules but you did and locked the thread when I asked you politely not to. Then you accuse me of talking to you in a certain way that never transpired in print here. So we can be done without you acknowledging how the storm started. I’ve been down that road many times over the 22 years on this site. I get that some guys don’t like to be told what to do which is why I was respectful even after you continued to not be. No big deal.

 

As for my comparing Fixters to Gibbs, that never happened either. I said that 100 dollar plugs don’t fish any better than Fixters and Gibbs. Not sure if the printed word didn’t convey that to you but that is what I said. You started the thread and alluded to thinking that you didn’t need a 110 dollar Danny and I actually agreed with you.
 

Don’t agree with several points you made. But again, I’m not going to argue with you. There’s other guys here that will do it with you all day long. Can you move on please. Thanks. 

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9 hours ago, Basswiper said:

"Everything works...everything! At some point or time, one thing will work better than the other. It's just a matter of me, the fisherman, trying to figure out what will increase my odds right now."

 

"Who cares what the other guy is doing? Who cares, not me! I'm going to do what puts the percentages in my favor. At the least 51% over 49%."

 

- Steve Campo (not exactly word for word)

 

Time and place guys. Bait works, plastic works, wood works. Means and methods. Sometimes plastic gets it done, sometimes a wood darter that runs a little shallower(or deeper) gets it done. Sometimes it doesn't matter. It's always a shame when good intent, good convo...goes haywire. Some very good points brought out though! 

 

I personally feel no matter your side of the argument this turned into, you show your weaknesses as a fisherman more than anything. Not that it affects my fishing and what I do but...

 

Those who would limit to just bait, why? Well, they might just be fishing because they need a stress relief with peace and not fishing hard. But if you're "fiishing hard" while being that stubborn...you're doing yourself a disservice, imo. However, you're reasoning is good enough for me because... why should I care how you fish?

 

Just use plastic because you don't need wood......ever? Why? Because you think you're outsmarting our surfcasting brothers and creators/designers who came before us? Whom put in as valiant of an effort with RND and TOW as anyone can and laid out templates in which you see as lures today...nope. Maybe it's because that's all you can afford though. Or you simply can't justify spending that kind of money on a lure. No doubt this will have an affect on your answer, must be honest with yourself! Maybe you just don't like wood. At the end of the day, all of your reasons for this conversation are acceptable to me, why should I care how you fish at your spots?

 

Just use wood because plastic is....less to you? Or ONLY because of the reason above? No. You'd be a fool not to throw metal and plastics at some point. Unless the reason you're into this sport isn't just about the fish and you do enjoy catching a lot, lot more on wood even if it means you miss a bite(s). You're reasons of why you chose to fish or purchase that lure is acceptable to me. Why should I care what you do and how you fish at your spots? That's you're choice!

 

Just don't do anything to affect my fishing and lower my percentages under 51%, haha!

 

We all have reasons we fish...

 

On topic, if someone wants to know if a certain high dollar plug is worth it? We know who the worthy builders are. I have a hard time believing it's by mistake. 

 

I would love to think we could all agree. The answer is the same. Usually it's not necessary for most but there's a time and place where said plug is absolutely worth it. Maybe not for the average angler. But absolutely for the average+ surfcaster. You kidding me? For a fisherman, It's a tool. Some use it. Some wont. Once you treat it otherwise...

 

It's game over and your decision making process probably needs to be re-defined.

 

 

Well said......

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You guys are very sensitive about your expensive plugs, very defensive about your purchases and then resort to name calling and gloating about who catches more big fish. Is it a competition?

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16 hours ago, DaveC said:

And I can tell that you don’t want to participate in a way that is productive and actually adds value to these forums. Scroll back a few posts and you’ll see @TimS address personal attacks.

 

“Why rant on the internet. Go fishing”. 

Sorry for the insult Dave.  It was uncalled for. I’m a idiot when it comes to online comments. Hopefully u did not take to much offense.  I will stay off site. Again sorry....... 

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12 hours ago, Aaron Barmmer said:

Sorry for the insult Dave.  It was uncalled for. I’m a idiot when it comes to online comments. Hopefully u did not take to much offense.  I will stay off site. Again sorry....... 

No big deal bud.  I know emotions get the better of us now and then.  Takes a big man to own it and it doesn't go unnoticed.  Stand up move.

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I Buy all the custom plugs I can afford. I fish them , I loose some , I find some and I make them. They are worth every cent and some are collectible that will increase in value. I’ve caught fish on every conceivable method over 55 years of fishing and now I prefer wood. I miss catching sometimes as they don’t want wood but I’ve caught on tin,plastic and rubber so for me I guess it’s not all about catching, well on wood it is !

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On 9/15/2021 at 9:39 PM, DaveC said:

That’s funny because when I walked into the shows GRS was at the table with me and Mike Fixter asking his opinion on pikies. That kinda predates when he would have had a table. :)

 

I never doubted that he was a nice guy. I never doubted supply and demand and commodities fluctuations. I simply stated that the harder they are to get the more people will pay for them. They aren’t paying those prices because of how much better they are then the plugs they are patterned after. Let’s face it, none of these guys reinvented the wheel.  

Everyone has to start somewhere (GRS). It's the end results that counts.

 

As far as recreating the wheel, some have in the past. Other's put there own creative talents to work on the plugs that are being built today. Mike's Customs has been a leader in his Catch N Release plugs that we use today. I personally have been fishing his plugs for quite some time now. Well before the craze on his plugs started.

 

 As far as supply and demand goes; sure that has something to do with it and I don't believe it's fisherman that creates the run up in pricing.

 

After all, it's not the builder that's getting these exorbitant excessive fees for there plugs. If you think a plug builder is getting rich think again. Years ago there profit margins where so small you have to really think why they bothered. Could it be the love of there sport that they decided to share. The lucky ones where bought out and those plugs where put into mass production giving the consumer a low cost plug to fish.

 

Back to Mike's Customs; expect some great things coming out of his plug shop. I have tested a new prototype of his this spring that will be out for the spring of 2022. He will be adding a new Catch N Release plug for the fisherman that enjoys are sport, with less impact on our fishery.

 

Be well Dave

Lou

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On 9/15/2021 at 9:31 PM, z-man said:

I wasn’t really asking a question. I’m just busting your balls. I own and have fished wood plugs. There was a bit of nostalgia to it for a while. Now I’m over it. I can catch more fish on a soft plastic bait. It also only has one hook instead of a bunch of trebles so I’m doing less damage to fish that are being released anyways. 

I fly-fish a lot and therefore I don't need to  primarily use toxic lead jigs and non biodegradable plastics & can also release fish very successfully. This is not to say I won't use plastics but I definitely don't think plastics are more effective than fly fishing. That said I certainly see the fun in fishing plastics.

 

What's also fun is tying your own flies and then catching fish on them. There's a certain reward to that. 

 

The main problem with plastics is they don't hold up to toothy predators and if you like to fish near the surface it becomes very expensive to use larger profile baits. Of course a large paddle tail on a jig can solve that problem but unfortunately when you fish stuff like that near the surface it can get expensive if Bluefish are busting.

 

I had a day this year with a pod of very big Blues had pinned 8 inch bunker against an outer jetty. Big Stripers we're also actively feeding so I broke out a Mike's Ditch Witch Pencil and immediately started hammering fish. They were jumping on that pencil with reckless abandon and it was kind of a blast. 

 

After a while what was going on kind of changed and I was only catching Bluefish. They were very nice size but I wanted to get back on the Striper bite and probably due to the carnage, the stripers simply move down to the bottom to take advantage of all the chopped up bait. 

 

Because I needed the size I put on a big Bucktail, which if you fish it with a #70 Uncle Josh red rind, can look very much like the head of a Bunker floating down to the bottom. I  dropped it underneath all the Blues and was able to have another hour of some of the best fishing I've had this year for 35#+ Stripers. 

 

The blues were slashing at the Bucktail as it dropped and I caught a good number of them also but never had to change my lure once. 

 

I switched over to a type 8 sinking fly line and larger 8-in bunker flies and caught several more good sized Bass, then I threw some big metal and even had a few more nice Bass. Once I start catching fish oftentimes I'll switch to some other method just to see if I can keep catching fish. 

 

If I was using plastics in that situation I would have been cursing. That's why I always say everything is situational and based on a fisherman's needs, their comfort level and their know how. I think there's a ton of value in being able to switch methods.

 

Fishing soft plastics is a whole world that you can explore and it's a lot of fun. They are pretty inexpensive but I think over the course of a season, a person spends a lot of money no matter what lures they are picking out - plastics included. 

 

When conditions dictate that I have to get down underneath the blue fish then oftentimes at that point I often turn to other means.

 

In situations where I have primarily Stripers around, plastics become an excellent option. If I restricted myself to just soft plastics I would be kind of a one-dimensional fisherman and my goal is to catch fish using multiple different methods.

 

Each form of fishing has its place and we all do what we're confident and comfortable with. We also have our favorite methods.

 

For me I would say just throwing Tins on the open Beach is by far the most relaxing and most productive method of consistently catching fish that I know of. It's a method that is impervious to wind and I can be anywhere in the water column I want to be.

 

I can use a nice slow steady retrieve and just focus on rotating through my 4 Tins that I use most of the time and I could care less if it's Bluefish or other toothy predators in the mix or whether it's just Stripers. Tins catch all of them consistently. It doesn't even matter if there are waves or whether it's calm out.

 

Most of the time I will move to a lure when I need a much larger profile and that's when I select a wood plug usually. Sometimes I'll use a spinning rod if I'm fishing on the surface otherwise I'm using conventional reels. 

 

When fish are in close, within 100 to 125 ft of the beach, and I don't have big breakers to contend with or high winds, fly-fishing becomes an option. 

 

Flip Pallet carried a spinning rod and a fly rod down to the dock everyday for a reason. For me it just comes down to what method I feel like fishing because I really don't restrict myself. 

 

I rarely bait fish, mainly because most of the time I have other ways of catching fish that are more challenging to me. That's a personal decision I make. That said bait fishing can be fun at times, just as fishing with plastics can be very enjoyable.

 

Wood Plugs, whether people make them themselves or whether they buy them, are responsible for most of the best non-metal lures that we see today in surf fishing. I can't think of many plastic lures that are really effective that would have ever come about if it wasn't for plug builders.

 

Very few of my plugs have and unnecessary amount of treble hooks either. I'm big on using inline hooks where it makes sense and I also never overdo it. On many of my plugs I've installed flag tails and in fact many custom builders have been doing that for a long while. 

 

 

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On 9/15/2021 at 11:54 AM, DaveC said:

I know there are.  For every one guy that talks about how good they catch fish there are ten talking about how hard they are to get.  That's what drives their price point.  Plain and simple.  

Not true. Read some of GRS post.  There are these professional flippers, auctioneers out there driving up the prices. They move from builder to builder creating the hype and market and making some good coin doing it too.

 

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2 hours ago, Lou T said:

Everyone has to start somewhere (GRS). It's the end results that counts.

 

As far as recreating the wheel, some have in the past. Other's put there own creative talents to work on the plugs that are being built today. Mike's Customs has been a leader in his Catch N Release plugs that we use today. I personally have been fishing his plugs for quite some time now. Well before the craze on his plugs started.

 

 As far as supply and demand goes; sure that has something to do with it and I don't believe it's fisherman that creates the run up in pricing.

 

After all, it's not the builder that's getting these exorbitant excessive fees for there plugs. If you think a plug builder is getting rich think again. Years ago there profit margins where so small you have to really think why they bothered. Could it be the love of there sport that they decided to share. The lucky ones where bought out and those plugs where put into mass production giving the consumer a low cost plug to fish.

 

Back to Mike's Customs; expect some great things coming out of his plug shop. I have tested a new prototype of his this spring that will be out for the spring of 2022. He will be adding a new Catch N Release plug for the fisherman that enjoys are sport, with less impact on our fishery.

 

Be well Dave

Lou

I only brought that up because of your post about the "good ole days" of going to shows with plug builders and such.  I was stating that the "good ole days" went a little further back for some of us. ;)  

 

With reinventing the wheel I was making a statement addressing a plug that is selling for $110 on Ebay versus one that is $20 and their efficacy.  I wasn't questioning Mike's or anyone else's designs.  I was saying that if you look hard enough you will find a lure for 1/10 of those Ebay prices that will catch the same fish.  These are fish we are talking about and they'll hit a hot dog on a hook if presented properly. :D

 

In no way did I imply that the builder gets rich on these Ebay fees.  This thread was about the price of the plug and the value at that price.  Of course we all know that the builder isn't getting $100 for his lure when "Anglers Attic" puts said lure on Ebay.  Again, the thread was about value, not price and who profits.

 

 

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37 mins ago, Lou T said:

Not true. Read some of GRS post.  There are these professional flippers, auctioneers out there driving up the prices. They move from builder to builder creating the hype and market and making some good coin doing it too.

 

I know that the market gets affected by the sellers, not the builders.  That's exactly what I was saying.

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"Boy. That escalated quickly"!

 

Personally I'm thankful for craftsmen like Mike - long may he continue. His plugs are awesome and I use them.

While I have never bid for one of his plugs on eBay, I have looked. LouT is spot on - for the most part its always the same few sellers.

Yet at these sort of prices . . . . some may be tempted to unload.

DitchWitch.PNG

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11 mins ago, Rm101 said:

"Boy. That escalated quickly"!

 

Personally I'm thankful for craftsmen like Mike - long may he continue. His plugs are awesome and I use them.

While I have never bid for one of his plugs on eBay, I have looked. LouT is spot on - for the most part its always the same few sellers.

Yet at these sort of prices . . . . some may be tempted to unload.

DitchWitch.PNG

Again, in no way was this thread about the efficacy of Mike's plugs.  It was addressing value of these plugs and if there is something that makes the plug, itself worth the prices they are selling for.  The answer is no.  No matter how you slice it.  We aren't talking about German engineering here.  We are talking about wooden lures.  This picture is a perfect example of that principle.  If you can't find a pencil popper that catches fish for less than $400 then you are looking in the wrong places.  LOL

 

To be clear, Mike's, GRS and any other lure that we insert in the sentence are all top quality.  That's not the discussion in this thread while it may have been in other threads.  The question is does a $110 dollar danny catch more fish than one that costs 1/10 of that.  If you said yes, you may have bought into the hype a bit. ;)

Edited by DaveC

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