Fishaholic Ivan

What backing...dacron or braid ?

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I do think dacron requires more care and more replacement vs braid. On outfits where the backing actually sees the water I would replace dacron yearly if it saw a lot of use or get 2 years with mod use. Braid, that stuff can be there forever.

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Interesting replies and reactions to my problems with braid, especially from Brian Horsely., who probably has more experience than any 5 of us.  I wonder what general maintenance routine he uses.....if any.  I use almost none.....and that may be the source of my problem, but then there is still a valid warning there for others like-minded.

 

I also wonder, as I ponder the mechanics of  the hangup when braid "buries". whether the older, small arbor reels are susceptible and large arbor reels are not.  When it buries it goes down near to the arbor, where the radius is small and a hard pull is much less effective at pulling it out.  With a large arbor reel the radius and therefore effectiveness at clearing itself with less tension at least theoretically would be greater.  All the reels I have had the problem with are old classics......and small arbor.

 

I do find it interesting that in conventional big game tackle I have seen virtually no evidence of braid use at all.....just huge reels filled with miles of mono.  Is my perception there wrong?  If braid were so benign then I would expect a massive shift to braid to get all that "baking" and long-run-insurance onto smaller, less expensive reels.  Can anyone comment on that?

 

 

Edited by Peter Patricelli

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56 mins ago, Peter Patricelli said:

Interesting replies and reactions to my problems with braid, especially from Brian Horsely., who probably has more experience than any 5 of us.  I wonder what general maintenance routine he uses.....if any.  I use almost none.....and that may be the source of my problem, but then there is still a valid warning there for others like-minded.

 

I also wonder, as I ponder the mechanics of  the hangup when braid "buries". whether the older, small arbor reels are susceptible and large arbor reels are not.  When it buries it goes down near to the arbor, where the radius is small and a hard pull is much less effective at pulling it out.  With a large arbor reel the radius and therefore effectiveness at clearing itself with less tension at least theoretically would be greater.  All the reels I have had the problem with are old classics......and small arbor.

 

I do find it interesting that in conventional big game tackle I have seen virtually no evidence of braid use at all.....just huge reels filled with miles of mono.  Is my perception there wrong?  If braid were so benign then I would expect a massive shift to braid to get all that "baking" and long-run-insurance onto smaller, less expensive reels.  Can anyone comment on that?

 

 

I think you're off there - California guys use it for their tuna, up to 300lb yft (or bigger). Topshot of mono then a holocore braid of 150-200lb. Im pretty sure he BFT on the east coast fish that ways as well. If I were to redo my party boat bait rig it would be 200' mono then holo.

Edited by Drew C.

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I use braid on several of my fly reels without an issue. I have caught a decent amount of strong and powerful fish and, like Drew, never suffered an amputation or finger filet. I often hear of that issue but have never met someone that suffered that fate.

 

I have never heard that braid directly on the spool could cause damage and have not seen any evidence of it on my reels. I would not use mono for backing.

 

 

 

 

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I use gsp braid on all my reels. The nicest ones are smoother and more finger friendly than dacron. Line bury into itself is not an issue when backing is tightly wound. Alternatively one can choose as thick a gsp braid as dacron would be and then they work the same.

 

For me the best aspects of gsp braid are that I can go with thinner in blue water (less water drag) and I can use smaller line capacity reels.

Edited by sms

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On 7/25/2021 at 9:02 AM, Peter Patricelli said:

Interesting replies and reactions to my problems with braid, especially from Brian Horsely., who probably has more experience than any 5 of us.  I wonder what general maintenance routine he uses.....if any.  I use almost none.....and that may be the source of my problem, but then there is still a valid warning there for others like-minded.

 

I also wonder, as I ponder the mechanics of  the hangup when braid "buries". whether the older, small arbor reels are susceptible and large arbor reels are not.  When it buries it goes down near to the arbor, where the radius is small and a hard pull is much less effective at pulling it out.  With a large arbor reel the radius and therefore effectiveness at clearing itself with less tension at least theoretically would be greater.  All the reels I have had the problem with are old classics......and small arbor.

 

I do find it interesting that in conventional big game tackle I have seen virtually no evidence of braid use at all.....just huge reels filled with miles of mono.  Is my perception there wrong?  If braid were so benign then I would expect a massive shift to braid to get all that "baking" and long-run-insurance onto smaller, less expensive reels.  Can anyone comment on that?

 

 

Maintenance not so much.  I have been using it so long ( 20 yrs)I don't even think about it  I do have an old almost broken line winding machine that I spool all my reels with --both fly, spin, conventional.   I know what you mean about no offshore reels filled with braid or at least in my marina. There are 40+ off shore boats and the only braid you see is on the kite rods.  In all the boats I have fished in Guatemala and Costa Rica it is all mono --shock absorption.   

 

I use braid on my jigging rods for bottom fishing and old drum fishing 

 

don't get me wrong braid can hurt if it get wrapped around your finger with an unhappy animal on the other end 

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of all the things that can put me in harms way when fishing my line is very low on that list. Some micron  some braid. 

 

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Conventional use of mono as topshot or mainline may be more about the abrasion the line has and the risk of loosing fish and equipment when two lines meet. Braid will instantly saw through lines if they touch. If you consider a commercial boat and the potential for multiple hookups then the choice becomes clear.

 

Mono may also be more forgiving for big game.

 

I definitely would not use mono for backing on a flyrod.

 

No matter the reel type I have braid as backing. Braid direct tied to a spool can slip, so I always tie it on then add a strip of duct or electrical tape for the line to dig into.

 

I think my flyreels have pretty light braid as backing. 50#  If i had to do it again I would probably dump 80 or 100#. The simple reason is that thin line on a flyreel serves no purpose to me. Thicker line is easier to manage and will last longer. 

 

I dont need 300 yards of backing. Which brings up a curiousity. In spinning at most i have had striped bass run 60 feet, but that is rare.  On the fly I have not had any big fish.  The biggest was maybe 13 pounds and only surged out and took ten feet of line, never made it to the reel or the backing. I wonder what the most backing some of you with experience in flyfishing striped bass. I. can understand with tarpon or other larger species , more backing the better, but with striped bass, bluefish, or albies is it safe to assume 100 yards may be adequate?

 

 

Edited by puppet

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Puppet, you’ve caught your share of big fish on regular gear, it’s about the same vs the fly. 
 

IMHO, big fish don’t run far without current, it’s more of a tug of war. That’s the big difference - how much pressure can you put on a bass with an 11’ spinning rod, appropriate reel and say 40lb braid - a lot. You can stop that fish dead in it’s tracks. You’re not doing that with any fly rod. 
 

Without significant current, 50 yards is probably fine for any bass, even greater than 40” fish. Fish runs here in the NE are greatly exaggerated. 50 yards is half a football field, that’s a really long way for a fish to go. 

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6 mins ago, Drew C. said:

That’s the big difference - how much pressure can you put on a bass with an 11’ spinning rod, appropriate reel and say 40lb braid - a lot. You can stop that fish dead in it’s tracks. You’re not doing that with any fly rod. 

11’ is horribly long to put pressure on fish. Unless you more or less take the rod out of the equation by pointing ar the fish. Alternatively the rod needs to bend so that lever becomes short or you need harness. With a fly rod my leader (straight mono from the fly lineto fly) is usually 50lb when chasing tuna species. And that is the point where the system usually breaks (with albies sometimes from the fly line too as the suitable lines do not always have high breaking strength core).

 

On the topic:

Soft braid at 80 or 100lb is like better than dacron (very thin nylon) in all except cost. If one fears for loosing fingers, then the tippet/leader is the problem. Your backing should not be the weakest link even with dacron. And you do not have backing loose when fishing and thus you do not have the possibility of the backing going round your finger and taking it off. And it won’t saw it off either when you choose soft one. High denier with 4 plait weave is not the way to go when choosing gsp backing.

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Horribly long? Absolutely not. A 2-4/3-6oz spinning rod will whip the crap out of any bass anywhere. Couple that rod with 40 or 50lb line and that bass isn’t going anywhere, even in current. The hook might pull - yes but that fish will be stopped. 

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1 hour ago, puppet said:

Conventional use of mono as topshot or mainline may be more about the abrasion the line has and the risk of loosing fish and equipment when two lines meet. Braid will instantly saw through lines if they touch. If you consider a commercial boat and the potential for multiple hookups then the choice becomes clear.

 

Mono may also be more forgiving for big game.

 

I definitely would not use mono for backing on a flyrod.

 

No matter the reel type I have braid as backing. Braid direct tied to a spool can slip, so I always tie it on then add a strip of duct or electrical tape for the line to dig into.

 

I think my flyreels have pretty light braid as backing. 50#  If i had to do it again I would probably dump 80 or 100#. The simple reason is that thin line on a flyreel serves no purpose to me. Thicker line is easier to manage and will last longer. 

 

I dont need 300 yards of backing. Which brings up a curiousity. In spinning at most i have had striped bass run 60 feet, but that is rare.  On the fly I have not had any big fish.  The biggest was maybe 13 pounds and only surged out and took ten feet of line, never made it to the reel or the backing. I wonder what the most backing some of you with experience in flyfishing striped bass. I. can understand with tarpon or other larger species , more backing the better, but with striped bass, bluefish, or albies is it safe to assume 100 yards may be adequate?

 

 

As Drew C points out, without current 50 yds will usually cover you, but many of us fish in spots with significant current; rips out of river mouths or even strong tides. I've had slot sized fish take a good bit of backing with a strong tide behind them, though probably not 100 yds by any means. A good sized bluefish in a rip off the beach can get you to hold your breath if you only have 50 yards though. The only fish I've had that came close to spooling me were jack crevalles over 20# off the beach where I felt outgunned with a 9 weight. Nothing like that swims around up here that I know of other than SBFT, which is the only fish I can think of that would require the amount of backing some of us carry. Most of my reels have 150 - 200 yds of dacron and I feel comfortable traveling to places that have jacks etc with that amount.

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@Drew C.
@stormy monday
Thanks. I also suspect the interval and probability of hooking a 30-40# fish and landing it is incredibly low...especially if one has more line out....so what is the point of having it...

 

@sms

I have seen 200 -300 yard spools of 80-100# braid sell for 11 dollars on amazon.  The prices fluctuate line the stock market but if you are patient it can be less expensive than dacron.

 

Drew was noting spinning gear not a flyrod. With spinning my drag is locked down and it is rare that any fish pulls more than a couple feet.  I have landed fish in the 40# class on spinning without much line loss. Occassionally i have hooked fish that have taken a lot more line but not exceeding 60 foot runs.  I suspect they are well over 40#....but have yet to land one of these larger runners.

 

I hope a get the thrill of getting a fish into my backing.  I do enjoy the standoff even with a teen fish...so cannot wait to experience something with more power.

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