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HaysWalt

Sure glad I don't fish for Flounder in NY

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MRFSS number at work again!!!

 

Fluke, porgy rules will tighten in N.Y.

 

Published in the Asbury Park Press 1/23/04

New York waters will be a good place for New Jersey anglers to avoid this season, if they are fishing for fluke or porgies.

The specific regulations will not be in place for weeks yet, but the outlook for New York is not good.

 

Thomas P. Fote, one of New Jersey's representatives on the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, said the problems with the Marine Recreational Fishery Statistics Survey that revealed New York had overfished its fluke quota by more than 100 percent were not resolved at this week's management meeting in Alexandria, Va.

 

The Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council and the ASMFC's fluke, porgy and sea bass board agreed to minor adjustments in the MRFSS numbers, but New York will still have to cut back substantially.

 

"New York faces a 57 percent reduction in porgies, and 48 percent in fluke," Fote said. "In fact, New York, Rhode Island and Massachusetts all face a 57 percent reduction in porgy landings."

 

New Jersey also overfished its fluke quota last year, but only by 1 percent. The season ran from May 3 through Oct. 13 last year with a 16 1/2-inch minimum size and a possession limit of eight fish.

 

"They'll probably cut a day or two off the beginning of the season and a day or two off the end," Fote said. "Or it might not even come to that after we look at the tables."

 

New Jersey's porgy landings were within the total allowable landings, and Fote said it is believed that the state's fishery will remain status quo.

 

If there is no change, it will mean the season will open July 1 and run through Dec. 31 with a minimum size of 10 inches and a possession limit of 50 fish.

 

Fote, who is also legislative chairman of the Jersey Coast Anglers Association, said the club representatives will meet at 7:30 p.m. Tuesday at the Brick municipal building, Chambers Bridge Road, Brick, to discuss fluke, porgy, striped bass and menhaden management.

 

Walt

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MRFSS number at work again!!!

 

Fluke, porgy rules will tighten in N.Y.

 

Published in the Asbury Park Press 1/23/04

New York waters will be a good place for New Jersey anglers to avoid this season, if they are fishing for fluke or porgies.

The specific regulations will not be in place for weeks yet, but the outlook for New York is not good.

 

Thomas P. Fote, one of New Jersey's representatives on the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, said the problems with the Marine Recreational Fishery Statistics Survey that revealed New York had over fished its fluke quota by more than 100 percent were not resolved at this week's management meeting in Alexandria, Va.

 

The Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council and the ASMFC's fluke, porgy and sea bass board agreed to minor adjustments in the MRFSS numbers, but New York will still have to cut back substantially.

 

"New York faces a 57 percent reduction in porgies, and 48 percent in fluke," Fote said. "In fact, New York, Rhode Island and Massachusetts all face a 57 percent reduction in porgy landings."

 

New Jersey also overfished its fluke quota last year, but only by 1 percent. The season ran from May 3 through Oct. 13 last year with a 16 1/2-inch minimum size and a possession limit of eight fish.

 

"They'll probably cut a day or two off the beginning of the season and a day or two off the end," Fote said. "Or it might not even come to that after we look at the tables."

 

New Jersey's porgy landings were within the total allowable landings, and Fote said it is believed that the state's fishery will remain status quo.

 

If there is no change, it will mean the season will open July 1 and run through Dec. 31 with a minimum size of 10 inches and a possession limit of 50 fish.

 

Fote, who is also legislative chairman of the Jersey Coast Anglers Association, said the club representatives will meet at 7:30 p.m. Tuesday at the Brick municipal building, Chambers Bridge Road, Brick, to discuss fluke, porgy, striped bass and menhaden management.

 

Walt

 

I'm sorry I just don't get it. They overfished their quota by 100% but yet they only get a 48% reduction. If the commercial industry over fishes our quota by 1% then it is taken off of the following year. If NY commercial fisherman overfished the fluke quota by 100% they wouldn't have a season next year, none, 0, zip, but yet the recs only get reduced 48%. Can someone please explain this to me.

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The qouta for 2004 increased, therefore they only needed a 48% decrease to fit into the 2004 qouta. Come on you know how it works. NJ over fished by more then 1% but was only required to take a 1% reduction because of the qouta increase. Don't start whining PCF, your numbers are real minimums, ours are fantasy surveys with +/- 25% or more.

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The issue is pay back or no payback. We went through this last year as a potential regulation on the recreational fisehry. With a commercial fishery they can track the landings and pretty much predict when the quota will be met. With the recreational fisheries they "data" is not released by NMFS for 3 to 6 months after the date of harvest.

 

How the heck are you supposed to close the fishery so that it does not go over?

 

Further the commercial fishery harvest is pretty much hard numbers. If you don't count landings that come in under the table from licensed commercial fishermen (the guys who declare that they do it for a living) and illegal landings by individuals who do illegally sell their harvest.

 

The recreational fishery is a guess and statistics good for plotting trends, etc. but not good enough for quotas with paybacks.

 

Tom

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Hey Walt,

 

Why doesn't NY go with a 17.5" minimum and just go along with DE and MD, that should eliminate the closure of the season early or delay of the fishin season starting for fluke? Then there is a standard along the East coast for flounder all have to be 17.5 to keep! Hell a 15.5. or 16.5 Flounder aint got enough meat on it to worry about anyway.. smile.gif

 

hooks up,

Forrest

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The good news for NY fluke fishermen is that ever since the size limits have been stricter, we seem to have seen larger & larger fluke every year. Back when the limit was 14", the largest fluke I could muster (in about 15 years of fishing for the flatties) was 21" - about 3 or 3.5 lbs redface.gif . In the past 3 years I've had numerous fish over 5# & my personal best last year at 8.5#. Reading the local reports last summer showed that these fish were no anomaly - there were a lot of big fluke being caught. I have to believe that the stricter size regulations have something to do with this.

 

For years I have enforced a personal size minimum of 18" on fluke because I too feel that a fish any smaller than that just isn't worth gettin' the knife dirty wink.gif .

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I have to agree Vinnyb.....The smaller flounder dont even need to be fileted...The bottom side is a waste...not enough meat to even go for it. Just my .02 worth!

 

Hooks up,

Forrest

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The qouta for 2004 increased, therefore they only needed a 48% decrease to fit into the 2004 qouta. Come on you know how it works. NJ over fished by more then 1% but was only required to take a 1% reduction because of the qouta increase. Don't start whining PCF, your numbers are real minimums, ours are fantasy surveys with +/- 25% or more.

 

How are "Our" numbers real minimums? Every fluke I catch and land is documented. I have to report them to the state, to NMFS, the dock where I sell to has to report them. Before I can take one fish off of the boat I have to call two hours in advance to NJ Fish & Game Enforcement.

If I take a fish home to eat, I have to report it.

I will agree your numbers are fantasies numbers.

My question then, how do we get good numbers? We all know MRSSF is a joke.

In realty recs don't even have a quota. Yes there is a number in place, when you can't go by it what good is it. Let's see, we will give recs five million pounds of fluke this year, if they catch ten million pounds, that's OK we will just write that off, forgive them for that because we don't have good numbers. That's BS, let's get better data!!!!!!!!

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Guys,

FYI there is a good article in this week's fisherman on how the MRFSS is compiled. I was suprised to learn that it isn't as much "black Magic" as some folks here would have us believe. There is one error in the article where they say that the surveyors will not go on private property, in My experience they will. They will only stay off private property if requested to do so by the owner.

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Me too. What's the difference between NY and NJ. How can one state be right on the money and the other so incredibly far over? Doesn't make sense. Did all the fish leave Jersey waters and go to NY to get caught. The numbers just can't be trusted.

 

Steve

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Did all the fish leave Jersey waters and go to NY to get caught

 

No, they just stayed away from for the majority of both states and hung out partying with the Stars in the Hamptons all summer.

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If you need a fish over 18 inches to get a worthwhile fillet then maybe you should consider taking up golf. There's plenty of meat on a 15-16 inch fish if you're even half decent with the fillet knife, and I'd rather eat one of them than a big one.

 

I think they should put a slot limit on the fluke. Maybe 3 fish 15 1/2-16 1/2 and 3 fish over 20 inches. I like to catch big fluke, but I like eating the smaller ones better.

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Guys,

FYI there is a good article in this week's fisherman on how the MRFSS is compiled. I was suprised to learn that it isn't as much "black Magic" as some folks here would have us believe. There is one error in the article where they say that the surveyors will not go on private property, in My experience they will. They will only stay off private property if requested to do so by the owner.

 

Mike- please also see the following site:

 

http://www.st.nmfs.gov/st1/recreatio.../overview.html

 

Walt

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