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Why judge History with Modern values? Haven’t our values evolved since the

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2 mins ago, Heron25 said:

One of my black buddies, dean of engineering at a university, made an interesting point.  He's Caribbean black- he said if the USA was still so racist, how would the BLM rioters have been treated in 1930 or 1960 vs. 2020?  

so again, we are excusing where we are today, by pointing out it was worse in the past.

 

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3 mins ago, fish'nmagician said:

dude,

we are still so racist that our Nations response to a black man getting elected was to follow him up with an incompetent piece of crap like Trump.

that was White Nationalists flexing their muscles.

 

 

Was that about Race or Leftist Ideology  

 

I say it was far far more a reaction to Leftist Ideology than Race

 

Race and Racism is a weapon wielded by the leftwing...  and when it's in short supply it needs to be manufactured 

 

The Chauvin Case was a great example of that

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Just now, RiverRaider said:

I say it was far far more a reaction to Leftist Ideology than Race

you can say whatever you wish,

but Trump was backed by the Alt Right white nationalists,

he came down the escalator and started ranting about Mexicans.

 

he fed red meat to who he knew his base would be.

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Just now, fish'nmagician said:

you can say whatever you wish,

but Trump was backed by the Alt Right white nationalists,

he came down the escalator and started ranting about Mexicans.

 

he fed red meat to who he knew his base would be.

 

 

You seem very invested in discounting the role that burgeoning leftist political ideology played in the pendulum swing... I wonder why 

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5 mins ago, fish'nmagician said:

so again, we are excusing where we are today, by pointing out it was worse in the past.

 

No.  I understood his point to be that a truly racist nation wouldn't tolerate 1/10 of what was shown to us on television nightly.  

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Just now, Heron25 said:

No.  I understood his point to be that a truly racist nation wouldn't tolerate 1/10 of what was shown to us on television nightly.  

again, weird logic, stupid statement.

 

we have black children going to schools named after Traitorous people who went to war with the USA to defend their right to own slaves,

we have black service men and women stationed at military bases named after treasonous scum who led armies against the USA for their right to own slaves.

we have statues to these scummy people in town squares giving them honor.

 

Traitors don't usually get honored in a country.

usually they are vilified,

but racism plays a huge role in how they are treated.

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1 min ago, fish'nmagician said:

again, weird logic, stupid statement.

 

we have black children going to schools named after Traitorous people who went to war with the USA to defend their right to own slaves,

we have black service men and women stationed at military bases named after treasonous scum who led armies against the USA for their right to own slaves.

we have statues to these scummy people in town squares giving them honor.

 

Traitors don't usually get honored in a country.

usually they are vilified,

but racism plays a huge role in how they are treated.

apples to oranges.  He and I both fled from countries where you'd be strung up by your nuts if you looked different, spoke incorrectly or didn't worship the right god.  So going to Thomas Jefferson Middle School isn't all that big of a deal.  

 

I will say I don't get the statues to confederate soldiers.  

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3 mins ago, Heron25 said:

apples to oranges.  He and I both fled from countries where you'd be strung up by your nuts if you looked different, spoke incorrectly or didn't worship the right god.  So going to Thomas Jefferson Middle School isn't all that big of a deal.  

 

I will say I don't get the statues to confederate soldiers.  

apples to oranges is pretending I was talking about Thomas Jefferson Middle school and NOT one named after Robert E Lee.

 

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1 min ago, fish'nmagician said:

apples to oranges is pretending I was talking about Thomas Jefferson Middle school and NOT one named after Robert E Lee.

 

 

 

What's the difference.. really... at the end of the day, there's not alot of difference... Jefferson has to go eventually or the job isn't complete  

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2 mins ago, fish'nmagician said:

apples to oranges is pretending I was talking about Thomas Jefferson Middle school and NOT one named after Robert E Lee.

 

Luckily, we live in a country where you can speak freely and potentially get that name changed.   Just happened in my town.

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18 mins ago, saltydawg said:

The work we do from here out is harder than it was in the past because we have tackled a lot of the low-hanging fruit already. Beyond changing attitudes, we have political and legal hurdles that still have to be addressed. The continued disenfranchisement of American Indians is a prime example. 

It's much harder.  For it to succeed, truth and honesty are required.  It requires those who knowingly or unknowingly perpetuate racist attitudes, rhetoric and policies to acknowledge it.  It requires the minority person to come to grips with the fact that their full participation in our system and "opportunity" does not mean "equal results" for anyone of any race.  Black, white, brown, yellow, it doesn't matter.  We all deserve the same opportunity, what we do with it is on us.  These things are not easy for the "oppressed" or "oppressors".

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4 mins ago, Heron25 said:

Luckily, we live in a country where you can speak freely and potentially get that name changed.   Just happened in my town.

names can potentially get changed in every nation on earth.

 

the fact that we name military bases after traitors speaks volumes about our systemic racism.

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6 mins ago, RiverRaider said:

 

 

What's the difference.. really... at the end of the day, there's not alot of difference... Jefferson has to go eventually or the job isn't complete  

At the end of the day, you outlaw statues completely, and nobody's life would change at all. 

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Just now, MikeM58 said:

At the end of the day, you outlaw statues completely, and nobody's life would change at all. 

it sends a message,

just like erecting the statue sent a message.

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Just now, fish'nmagician said:

names can potentially get changed in every nation on earth.

 

the fact that we name military bases after traitors speaks volumes about our systemic racism.

1st part- not true

2nd part- morality and judgment are both fluid and sometimes strong and sometimes weak.  

 

Unlike some on here, I appreciate your perspective when you actually take the time to explain your thoughts and not just call people racist or triggered.  

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