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Why judge History with Modern values? Haven’t our values evolved since the

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13 mins ago, ihocky2 said:

It seems more like a way for the liberals/woke to make themselves feel superior. They claim their moral superiority against their contemporaries. But instead of stopping their they use their judgements of history as a way to make themselves seem superior to the heroes of the past, superior to people who truly were visionary and great. It is another method of virtue signaling, they are so great that they not only know slavery is bad and love black people but people like Thomas Jefferson didn't understand that. 

 

It also gives them further reason to denounce our country and our way of life. By making the founders and the people who built the country seem like bad people they can try to justify changing our way of life. Basically "If our founding fathers didn't know slavery was bad, were they really smart enough to establish our government and culture"?

a LOT of emotion to unpack here.

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46 mins ago, saltydawg said:

If you didn’t judge history, you wouldn’t be able to tell if we are getting better as a nation. We do make value judgments…that’s human. It’s important to understand the context of WHY things happened as they did and how to improve. 

That's why is absolutely crazy to say racism is out of control today.  Compared to the past, there is hardly any racism left.  Can we get better? Sure. Are we exponentially better today than we were in the past? Without a doubt.  

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Just now, MikeM58 said:

That's why is absolutely crazy to say racism is out of control today.  Compared to the past, there is hardly any racism left.  Can we get better? Sure. Are we exponentially better today than we were in the past? Without a doubt.  

 

 

Demand for Racism has Far Far outstripped Supply 

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Just now, MikeM58 said:

That's why is absolutely crazy to say racism is out of control today.  Compared to the past, there is hardly any racism left.  Can we get better? Sure. Are we exponentially better today than we were in the past? Without a doubt.  

are you really feeling good about our racism because we don't have slaves anymore?

c'mon.

next time you guys whine about taxes I'll compare it to Prince John.

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1 min ago, fish'nmagician said:

are you really feeling good about our racism because we don't have slaves anymore?

c'mon.

next time you guys whine about taxes I'll compare it to Prince John.

 

What a silly post... 

 

Is that what you think he's saying?

 

No... It's not because it would be silly to think that 

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53 mins ago, ihocky2 said:

By making the founders and the people who built the country seem like bad people they can try to justify changing our way of life. Basically "If our founding fathers didn't know slavery was bad, were they really smart enough to establish our government and culture"?

Ding ding ding - we have a winner !

When you distill a topic like this down to it's roots it's always about money and power.

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4 mins ago, RiverRaider said:

 

What a silly post... 

 

Is that what you think he's saying?

 

No... It's not because it would be silly to think that 

seems to be what he's saying.

if you compare where we are now, to where we were, it's a lot of improvement,

 

seems to be a very foolish way to rationalize our racism.

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1 min ago, fish'nmagician said:

seems to be what he's saying.

 

Maybe it's just you because I understood him without difficulty

 

What's "Our" Racism?  :laugh:

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10 mins ago, RiverRaider said:

 

Maybe it's just you because I understood him without difficulty

I understood him too,

compared to the past there is hardly any left.

pretty straight forward.

it's a way of excusing what is going on today because it's not as bad as it once was.

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24 mins ago, MikeM58 said:

That's why is absolutely crazy to say racism is out of control today.  Compared to the past, there is hardly any racism left.  Can we get better? Sure. Are we exponentially better today than we were in the past? Without a doubt.  

When you look at the generational shifts in attitudes, the changes in American views on race have changed very quickly and radically. Most social paradigms change more slowly. I think any study of history illustrates this. Of course, the change is not constant, and we have periods of time in our history where we have slowed or even regressed.  

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21 mins ago, RiverRaider said:

 

 

Demand for Racism has Far Far outstripped Supply 

It's the easy way out, so that's why it thrives.  There are very few honest conversations about race in this country.  We can't even be honest enough to say it's not about "racism" in this country, it's about the real, perceived, and imagined injustice toward one race, the African Americans.  

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20 mins ago, fish'nmagician said:

seems to be what he's saying.

if you compare where we are now, to where we were, it's a lot of improvement,

 

seems to be a very foolish way to rationalize our racism.

“Our” racism? Please elaborate 

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1 min ago, saltydawg said:

When you look at the generational shifts in attitudes, the changes in American views on race have changed very quickly and radically. Most social paradigms change more slowly. I think any study of history illustrates this. Of course, the change is not constant, and we have periods of time in our history where we have slowed or even regressed.  

Agreed.  On the one hand, no other race in the history of the world has moved as quickly from enslavement to the pinnacle of leadership (POTUS) as quickly as African Americans have.  Along the way, there have been several injustices done to them, and that's undeniable. The self destructive behaviors are somehow off limits for discussion. IMO the combination of these three truths is the real history. 

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1 min ago, pakalolo said:

“Our” racism? Please elaborate 

the racism that exists in our country.

it's our's.

I might not be racist,

yet as a citizen I own the racism that exists because scummy people are still racist.

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