gooner

tpe of fly line for swinging streamers in the current.

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When you want to swing streamers in the current and you want your fly to go really deep so you canot do it with a floating line and weighted fly, what type of line you prefer to use? A full sinking line( intermediate, or triple desity or sink tip with intermediate running line) or maybe it is better to go with a sinking tip with floating running line so you mend the floating portion for better line control?

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Depends on the water.  Spring and high runoff I use a full sink line with a short 6 foot leader then add a split shot a foot above the streamer.  I've also used handed black nosed dace streamers on a #8 Mustad.  Wrapped lead wire on the hook shank.  Works well.  But you aren't going to false cast much.  Sometimes I just use a split shot if conditions aren't too bad.  Sink tips are ok.  But the thing is you want to get that streamer down.

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16 hours ago, gooner said:

When you want to swing streamers in the current and you want your fly to go really deep so you canot do it with a floating line and weighted fly, what type of line you prefer to use? A full sinking line( intermediate, or triple desity or sink tip with intermediate running line) or maybe it is better to go with a sinking tip with floating running line so you mend the floating portion for better line control?

How deep is really deep ? 

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Sinking line limits your fishing. If your chosen waters have a variety of features/hatches you’re stuck swinging.

  Sinking tip and split shot on a floater is best for 95% of situations IMO. Unless your salmon guide says otherwise.

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1 min ago, FlukeM said:

Sinking line limits your fishing. If your chosen waters have a variety of features/hatches you’re stuck swinging.

  Sinking tip and split shot on a floater is best for 95% of situations IMO. Unless your salmon guide says otherwise.

I fish mainly for seabass in the mediteranean. So you say that a F/sinkt tip line is better for fishing the current that a full sinking line ?

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7 mins ago, gooner said:

I fish mainly for seabass in the mediteranean. So you say that a F/sinkt tip line is better for fishing the current that a full sinking line ?

I misread your question as freshwater river related. Ocean/inshore fishing is a whole different ballgame of course.

  After reading your description I would use a sinking line for swinging for sea bass, and base line weight on rod and current factors. 

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On 6/8/2021 at 1:54 PM, gooner said:

When you want to swing streamers in the current and you want your fly to go really deep so you canot do it with a floating line and weighted fly, what type of line you prefer to use? A full sinking line( intermediate, or triple desity or sink tip with intermediate running line) or maybe it is better to go with a sinking tip with floating running line so you mend the floating portion for better line control?

it depend where you fish and how deep you like to be with fly ?

you can use any line with 10' T-14.

there is T-8 to T-22,every one has defrent sinking rate,you just ad to your fly line any lenght you need.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

For saltwater I still have a few old Cortland 325QD's but they are falling apart.  On a stiff 9/10 wt rod they were outstanding.

 

The new Cortland HEAVY sink line us 400 grains I think.

 

This kind of question warrants a call to the Bear's Den in Taunton or a trip if you're local.  Scott & his team can walk you through & hook you up

Edited by Panzon

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On 6/11/2021 at 11:11 AM, gooner said:

I fish mainly for seabass in the mediteranean. So you say that a F/sinkt tip line is better for fishing the current that a full sinking line ?

From reading your initial post I thought you were fishing in a river. Fishing for sea bass is definitely a deeper water application. They aren't bottom dwellers and they aren't often on the surface. They're kind of a middle of the water column fish. 

 

Boat fishing guys use smaller but heavier bait fish jigs for them and do very well.

 

You're going to need to get down at least 20 ft or more, and if you're swinging the fly line in current, perhaps drifting along the edge of a rip line where you're casting up current from your position and into fast moving water,  then what will happen is the current will take the line in zing it through the zone and you only have 30 to 45 seconds or so of drift.

 

Let's be generous & say say you have on average, a full 45 seconds before your fly swings & you're tight on it. 

 

Sink rates are calculated in "ips" or "cms" so what that means is that IN NON MOVING water, with a 300 to 500 grain line, the maximum depth you would be able to reach is well beyond 40 ft because you have the luxury of counting down as long as you like before you begin your retrieve.

 

However, heavy current swings the fly  and lines struggle to stay 5 to 10 ft down on a 45 second swing. In other words they don't perform the same in heavy current as they do in areas where there is no current.

 

You should definitely start off with as long a fly line as you can find. 150 ft is absolutely best for this application.

 

This will help you reach greater depths while the fly is swinging. The length of your sinking section of line isn't that important. The goal is to pick it up quickly once you retrieve it and be able to throw it again & repeat. Therefore, a head of 30' is as time tested as it is perfect for saltwater fishing in current.

 

I wouldn't worry too much of it matches your rod either. You're only going to cast 50 to 75 ft up current and then as the fly swings you're just going to feed line out of your stripping basket or off the deck of the boat. Assuming you are using 10wt or 11wt rods.

 

I don't target sea bass but I do a lot of saltwater fishing in or near current with fly lines, mostly from the boat or from the jet ski & I'm always around areas where there's current. 300 grain to 500 grain full sinking lines are best for this application, using 9wt 10wt or 11wt Fly Rods. 

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On 6/14/2021 at 5:55 AM, Panzon said:

For saltwater I still have a few old Cortland 325QD's but they are falling apart.  On a stiff 9/10 wt rod they were outstanding.

 

The new Cortland HEAVY sink line us 400 grains I think.

 

This kind of question warrants a call to the Bear's Den in Taunton or a trip if you're local.  Scott & his team can walk you through & hook you up

400 Grains doesn't indicate the sink of a fly line. Almost every company puts grain weight on the box. It means different things from company to company but the total grain weight of the castable portion of the fly line, which means the entire head including the rear taper and the front taper will have a measured weight. Therefore when we say 400 grains we're assuming that's the full weight of the castable portion of the fly line.

 

Think of grain weight as a useful measurement for determining whether a rod can be easily loaded by your casting stroke. Pick a certain rod weight such as an 8wt.. now compare it to 5 other 8wt rods, each made by a different manufacturer. Try to have a few slower action rods in with a few medium action rods and a few fast action rods also when you do this comparison.

 

Each rod will respond best to certain grain weights. When the caster fully arializes the head of the line, that's when grain weight becomes a really useful measurement. A skilled caster we'll know from looking at a flyline taper and the corresponding grain weight (for the full castable portion of the fly line), pretty much what they're looking for and this helps them purchase a fly line and then enjoy the fly line because they know it will perform on the rod or perhaps different rods they will be using that particular line on.

 

Floating lines can be 400 grains. Intermediate lines can be 400 grains and full sinking lines can be 400 grains.

 

In this instance in order to help the OP, we want to look at the sink rate of the sinking portion of the fly line. This is how we calculate how fast a line can sink. Intermediate lines will sink slowly, moderate sinking lines will sink a little faster and the full sinking lines will sink the quickest. Trolling lines will sink uniformly.

 

Furthermore some full-sinking lines have floating running lines and others have intermediate sinking running lines. 

 

Generally speaking you will see full sinking lines sink at rates between 7 to 8 ips.

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1 hour ago, CaryGreene said:

From reading your initial post I thought you were fishing in a river. Fishing for sea bass is definitely a deeper water application. They aren't bottom dwellers and they aren't often on the surface. They're kind of a middle of the water column fish. 

 

Boat fishing guys use smaller but heavier bait fish jigs for them and do very well.

I think this might be one of those cases where the local name for a fish can cause some confusion.  The OP is referring to seabass in the Mediterranean, which is most likely Dicentrarchus labrax, which we in the US would call "branzino". (again, I'm assuming this based on context, the OP may be using "seabass" to mean a different fish).  The black sea bass found along the US east coast is Centropristis striata.  From what I gather, the branzino are similar to stripers (both in the same family), so striper tactics may be more applicable than those used for black sea bass here (you wouldn't need to go so deep if that's the case).  It would be helpful for the OP to clarify.

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5 mins ago, East Coaster said:

I think this might be one of those cases where the local name for a fish can cause some confusion.  The OP is referring to seabass in the Mediterranean, which is most likely Dicentrarchus labrax, which we in the US would call "branzino". (again, I'm assuming this based on context, the OP may be using "seabass" to mean a different fish).  The black sea bass found along the US east coast is Centropristis striata.  From what I gather, the branzino are similar to stripers (both in the same family), so striper tactics may be more applicable than those used for black sea bass here (you wouldn't need to go so deep if that's the case).  It would be helpful for the OP to clarify.

Well, at least we know the OP is not fishing in a river lol. If the OP is targeting Branzino then what he's doing would probably.be very similar to what we do here in the Northeast, go to be clear I've never caught a Branzino personally.

 

Still, the application is fishing with a fly line in current so it's probably a moot point because there's only so much you can do in current with fly lines.

 

Captain Dan Wood out of Niantic would be the leading expert in this field here in the Northeast. He fishes more than anyone else I know and he's out there in the race and the sound all season long where the current is whipping. 

 

Everything I do, I picked up from him Back in the 80's. It's surprising how so many things can change but yet the basic principle stays the same. 

 

I showed up one day to fish with him with three different spools and he looked at me like I was a Martian. Of course I only used my full sinking head fly line and the other spools sat in my boat bag all day. I remember dumping my fly line into a rip that he was positioned next to in the fly line went zipping past and straightened out literally in about 15 seconds. 

 

He pointed out at the beginning of the trip that my flylines weren't going to get down very deep, 5 to 10 ft maybe he said. Well, he was just as right in 1987 as he is today. Strong currents don't allow sinking fly lines to sink all that much.

 

That's why good captains position themselves behind stationary objects that block current - like rock piles or structure. When the current changes, big fish will stack up behind the structure and so you really don't need to be that deep which is a good thing fortunately.

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