Draekon

New FG Knot finishing knot: J-Finish

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A buddy of mine thought of a new way to secure his FG knots.  It is basically an Alberto knot with FG style wraps to secure the FG knot.  He is not sure if the half-hitches at the end are necessary.  I personally think the FG part should be cinched down first before starting the Alberto-like finish.  Can anyone with the proper equipment test the new technique strength-wise?  Also, is there anything like this already out there?
 

 

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To my eye, finishing as he did will prevent the original fg portion from cinching properly to truly lock in, placing all the holding power on the doubled Alberto style portion. 

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I personally feel that after the fg wraps there should be one half-hitch and then a hard cinch down on the fg knot to fuse the braid and cause the fluorocarbon / mono to curl in a spiral.  The strength in the fg is in the "Chinese finger trap" phenomenon.

After the fg part is set, you can do this J-Finish perhaps without the half-hitches and have an incredibly compact knot. I would need to know it if can withstand hundreds of passes through the rod guides.  In my experience, the rizutto finish slips with time so I usually have an alternating half-hitch about half the length of the fg with reliable results. A half-hitch finish seems wider than the J-Finish from what I can see.

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yeah i'm good on that....

 

I prefer the PR knot anyways.  If I'm spending FG knot time to tie a knot. I'm spinning a bobbin.

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I've always liked the FG because my leader isn't getting doubled over like an Alberto, Albright, uni-uni, etc.  Keeps the profile nice and slim for passing through the guides.  Nice knot, but defeats the purpose IMO. 

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The FG is strong enough on it's own without adding complexity to it. This mod also looks like it adds bulk to the knot...

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On 4/25/2021 at 2:03 AM, Draekon said:

I would need to know it if can withstand hundreds of passes through the rod guides.  In my experience, the rizutto finish slips with time so I usually have an alternating half-hitch about half the length of the fg with reliable results. A half-hitch finish seems wider than the J-Finish from what I can see.

Two thoughts regarding the Rizutto.

 

First, I leave a tag end about 1/4-3/8” long and use a flame to create a nub at the end leaving a hanging stub of 1/8-1/4”.  The stub allows some slippage in the Rizutto but the melted end keeps the braid from fraying, for a while. It will fray after many dozens of casts which gets to the second point. 
 

I have coated all of my FGs with Softex to provide a mechanical coating/bond that also lasts for many dozens, if not hundreds, of casts. Flexible enough to not flake off the way Crazy Glue can (tried that).

 

I have never had a FG fail with the mono pulling through the braid finger-cuff. I use two 4” sections of 1/2” PVC, wrapped in duct tape, to pull the standing ends to lock the braid into the mono. Easier than wearing gloves. 

 

Lately though, I have moved from Softex on the entire knot to using a drop of flexible UV glue at the Rizutto end which holds it all together much better, with no added bulk or diameter. 

ETA: I also leave a stub of the mono hanging off the knot, 1/8-3/16”, rather than trim that flush to the knot. While counterintuitive, it slips through guides with less jamming that a fully trimmed end that can create a bump. Learned that on from big-fish shore angler Dennis Verreet. 

 

Edited by flyangler

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On 4/25/2021 at 0:48 AM, Fishjerk said:

To my eye, finishing as he did will prevent the original fg portion from cinching properly to truly lock in, placing all the holding power on the doubled Alberto style portion. 

I agree. 

love the experimental knot thing and I do variations myself! However.... Doubling the line this way creates a hard stop. It can still get tighter but that effect is likely going to be concentrated at the doubled over section. 

 

The purpose of an FG or a PR is to let the braid cinch down like @Draekon said. Finger trap. It has no endpoint and should be allowed to slip or shrink/expand ever so slightly. But ideally a well tied knot gets tighter all over as it cinches down further. 

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On 4/25/2021 at 3:35 AM, scoobydoo said:

yeah i'm good on that....

 

I prefer the PR knot anyways.  If I'm spending FG knot time to tie a knot. I'm spinning a bobbin.

I’m in this boat now except for braid to braid connections near the top of the spool.

 

For braid as a “shock leader” (so to speak), I’m using an FG knot inspired by posts from @ZAFisher. The FG is much smaller and I’m getting really nice strength results (unscientific testing methods notwithstanding) by making it extra long (it cinches down to nothing anyway), starting with standard FG and then doing several sections of relix knot style double wraps of the tag end. 

 

(PR for the braid to braid anywhere that is well buried in the spool not to see the light of day except on a long run from a surf hooked shark or ray.)

 

Having too little time to fish but still being fishing obsessed has made me neurotic about knots. Don’t be like me, kids!

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1 hour ago, EricDice said:

I’m in this boat now except for braid to braid connections near the top of the spool.

 

For braid as a “shock leader” (so to speak), I’m using an FG knot inspired by posts from @ZAFisher. The FG is much smaller and I’m getting really nice strength results (unscientific testing methods notwithstanding) by making it extra long (it cinches down to nothing anyway), starting with standard FG and then doing several sections of relix knot style double wraps of the tag end. 

 

(PR for the braid to braid anywhere that is well buried in the spool not to see the light of day except on a long run from a surf hooked shark or ray.)

 

Having too little time to fish but still being fishing obsessed has made me neurotic about knots. Don’t be like me, kids!

Eric, for super strong knots that won't be cast, but could be pulled by a shark or ray, FG or PR your mainline to to much heavier length of braid and then join the top up or top shot with the same method to the heavy braid

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On 4/29/2021 at 1:09 PM, flyangler said:

Two thoughts regarding the Rizutto.

 

First, I leave a tag end about 1/4-3/8” long and use a flame to create a nub at the end leaving a hanging stub of 1/8-1/4”.  The stub allows some slippage in the Rizutto but the melted end keeps the braid from fraying, for a while. It will fray after many dozens of casts which gets to the second point. 
 

I have coated all of my FGs with Softex to provide a mechanical coating/bond that also lasts for many dozens, if not hundreds, of casts. Flexible enough to not flake off the way Crazy Glue can (tried that).

 

I have never had a FG fail with the mono pulling through the braid finger-cuff. I use two 4” sections of 1/2” PVC, wrapped in duct tape, to pull the standing ends to lock the braid into the mono. Easier than wearing gloves. 

 

Lately though, I have moved from Softex on the entire knot to using a drop of flexible UV glue at the Rizutto end which holds it all together much better, with no added bulk or diameter. 

ETA: I also leave a stub of the mono hanging off the knot, 1/8-3/16”, rather than trim that flush to the knot. While counterintuitive, it slips through guides with less jamming that a fully trimmed end that can create a bump. Learned that on from big-fish shore angler Dennis Verreet. 

 

You know all the cool kids don't you FA...My fishing partner stress tested one of my FGs Saturday when he hooked a 28' Contender heading out of the inlet. I tied the knot Friday night, in the dark with a steady 30-40mph wind, used the rizzuto finish and after hundreds of casts, the hooks bent out when the Contender started stripping his line. He learned the hard way to never grab the braid. When we finally got control of the reel and stopped it, the hooks on the lure bent out and we got everything back. Burnt 1/4" tag on the main, mushroomed nub on the flouro.

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7 hours ago, ZAFisher said:

Eric, for super strong knots that won't be cast, but could be pulled by a shark or ray, FG or PR your mainline to to much heavier length of braid and then join the top up or top shot with the same method to the heavy braid

Yes, that’s genius! Since you posted that before, I’ve been testing that too. I actually had multiple tests that broke at a spot in the lighter braid other than the knot. (Presumably a section of thinner line in 20 lbs PP Slick 8.)

 

Although, I’m not currently using that way on a field ready reel because I’m going 20 to 50 lbs or 30 to 65 lbs.  Whereas, I would have to go 30 to 65 back to 50 and that didn’t seem to make sense. I need to pick up something heavier than 65 lbs for this method. 
 

I think I did one reel though with old fashioned cheap used 4 strand 20 lbs to 65 lbs and then to a 150 - 200 yard section of 8 carrier braid in 30/40/50 or whatever I forget. 

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7 hours ago, RockRonin said:

You know all the cool kids don't you FA...My fishing partner stress tested one of my FGs Saturday when he hooked a 28' Contender heading out of the inlet. I tied the knot Friday night, in the dark with a steady 30-40mph wind, used the rizzuto finish and after hundreds of casts, the hooks bent out when the Contender started stripping his line. He learned the hard way to never grab the braid. When we finally got control of the reel and stopped it, the hooks on the lure bent out and we got everything back. Burnt 1/4" tag on the main, mushroomed nub on the flouro.

Hey hey hey, I have only met Dennis once up in Sebastian. I drove up with Blacktiph and we met Dennis and Lyd Basnite there (Mike's wife). At the time I had no idea who Dennis was other than a traveling angler and never heard of the Basnites. Only on the ride home did Josh give me their backgrounds. As for Dennis' knots, I am pretty sure I got his twist on the Bimini from one of Josh's videos and might have heard his FG style from Josh personally. 

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36 mins ago, flyangler said:

Hey hey hey, I have only met Dennis once up in Sebastian. I drove up with Blacktiph and we met Dennis and Lyd Basnite there (Mike's wife). At the time I had no idea who Dennis was other than a traveling angler and never heard of the Basnites. Only on the ride home did Josh give me their backgrounds. As for Dennis' knots, I am pretty sure I got his twist on the Bimini from one of Josh's videos and might have heard his FG style from Josh personally. 

Okay, so you dropped four(4) names in one sentence. That has to be some kind of record. I met Zeno Hromin at a show one time and the guy from Nomad Charters/Lures...that's it. I tie Briggsy's FG exactly how he ties it and since I've been tying FGs, I've only had one fail, that after hundreds of casts and I believe 45 fish. *I was recording a blitz which is how I know how many. I see all these videos where guys are interlocking a dozen and a half half-hitches and my eyes glaze over. I pull every knot and burn my tags. It's a pass-fail thing. If they pass the pull, they're good enough. The nub on the leader is insurance, but I don't remember having one of my knots slip down to that nub.

   For those who don't know, Dennis Verreet held the world record for Yellowfin Tuna off the rocks. (207lbs)

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