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NY Commercial Fisherman Bust

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Fergal

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48 mins ago, Saltfruit said:


Oh I imagine.

It makes the charter seem nicer, and keeps business in the pocket.

Frustrating because in some cases, charters are allowed more fish already. Upsetting on so many levels.

I was on a boat about 10 years, well known NJ boat. Spring tog trip, April. Slow tog but good Bass. I still kept Bass at that time but I was trending away from it. Toggin sucked so the boat looked for Bass, which was good. I got a 15lber and that’s all I wanted. I think the limit was two then. Had my second on, capt was nearby when the fish was boatside and he had the gaff. I told him I was good, had one was going to lift it.... He stuck the fish, and told me 

“everything dies today”. I caught a few more, made sure no one was near me and lifted them and put them back. Many people took well over the limit that day. While I don’t remember I’m sure had fresh Bass that night, maybe made Bass salad for a few days and the rest was tossed, freezer burnt several months later. After that day I kept one more Bass a few years later and that was the last one. It certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. I wasn’t a regular on that boat but I did go quite a bit. 
 

NJ party boat fishing at its finest. 
 

 

ASMFC - Destroying public resources and fisheries one stock at a time since 1942.

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3 hours ago, Drew C. said:

Yes and no.
 

I’m sure the case in question, they fished within the law at times too. So that day they were ‘good’. Then they broke the law too. They got caught this time. so sometimes they were legit and sometimes they weren’t. The big picture is how much of both?  
 

I think these guys are very good at gaming the system and the old quote ‘you don’t know what you don’t know’ applies. None of us know how big of an issue this is, how common it is. Given the Carlos case and this one I’m willing to guess it’s a lot worse. But wtf do I know?
 

in this case, they get fined $100,000 - so what. If this has been going on for years there’s probably 3 times that under a mattress. 

Even if they get fined 100K the fish they sold were supposedly worth 250K so 150K profit is a pretty good payday. Crime pays well. 

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The feds are going to have a problem if the unindicted co-conspirator is Lou’s Fish Market. Mark Parente was the former owner and he single handedly sank the governments last EDNY indictment of a fisherman. 
 

That case was a disaster for the feds, they were lucky to get a mistrial when the jury hung. They based that case on Parente’s cooked books. The cross examination of the him was brutal. He admitted to lying to the investigators, falsifying records that the government used in for the trial, and lying under oath during direct examination. 

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3 hours ago, Drew C. said:

I was on a boat about 10 years, well known NJ boat. Spring tog trip, April. Slow tog but good Bass. I still kept Bass at that time but I was trending away from it. Toggin sucked so the boat looked for Bass, which was good. I got a 15lber and that’s all I wanted. I think the limit was two then. Had my second on, capt was nearby when the fish was boatside and he had the gaff. I told him I was good, had one was going to lift it.... He stuck the fish, and told me 

“everything dies today”. I caught a few more, made sure no one was near me and lifted them and put them back. Many people took well over the limit that day. While I don’t remember I’m sure had fresh Bass that night, maybe made Bass salad for a few days and the rest was tossed, freezer burnt several months later. After that day I kept one more Bass a few years later and that was the last one. It certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. I wasn’t a regular on that boat but I did go quite a bit. 
 

NJ party boat fishing at its finest. 
 

 


A blood sport at its reddest.

We all love fishing, but it's got as much ugly as good.

 

 

Hard to point fingers too, regarding conservation or leaving a share for generations to come.

I've been guilty of thinking of fish as trash, or over-catching bait. Hell I tortured fish plenty as a kid. 
Retrospect is easy, but we all have selfish moments in the back pockets. That said - where is the line between mistreating fish and poaching the future? 

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The red snapper SWFL story went like this: Firstly I can only access the report from a local newspaper by subscribing, Everything else by the Feds and State was scrubbed. 2 boats from the fleet of the fish house went illegally into the Gulf to harvest red snapper a week early. The 2 boats were filled with illegal catch and got a call that the Feds were going to be at the dock. The 2 captains sold off the catch before coming back to dock. The boats returned with some grouper and a few red snapper, even though they were tracked in the off season zone. So the Feds only fined them $1000 as few snapper found., The Captains said it was a novice crew. TV 4 had the original report as some many legal fish houses were calling in and upset. It was total cover up from the boat all the way to the Feds.

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12 hours ago, CWitek said:

which is why if you catch a bass and keep it, and then catch a second bass and give it to a guy who had been getting skunked all day, you're in violation, because you had already taken your limit. 

This happens so often it's disgusting.  Bass should really be set as a 'per boat' limit.  I haven't witnessed it in my group of fishermen as everyone is C&R and only fish for fun not food, but I know a lot of anglers in NJ that will pack their boats with Aunts and Uncles so they can keep a bigger limit... despite those people not even touching a rod all day.

 

11 hours ago, Drew C. said:

I was on a boat about 10 years, well known NJ boat. Spring tog trip, April. Slow tog but good Bass. I still kept Bass at that time but I was trending away from it. Toggin sucked so the boat looked for Bass, which was good. I got a 15lber and that’s all I wanted. I think the limit was two then. Had my second on, capt was nearby when the fish was boatside and he had the gaff. I told him I was good, had one was going to lift it.... He stuck the fish, and told me 

“everything dies today”. I caught a few more, made sure no one was near me and lifted them and put them back. Many people took well over the limit that day. While I don’t remember I’m sure had fresh Bass that night, maybe made Bass salad for a few days and the rest was tossed, freezer burnt several months later. After that day I kept one more Bass a few years later and that was the last one. It certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. I wasn’t a regular on that boat but I did go quite a bit. 
 

NJ party boat fishing at its finest. 
 

 

This hits home hard.  I was never much of a 'keep fish' kind of guy, though I like my scup fluke or robin from time to time (never bass, yuk, would take a bluefish over a bass any day).  Family always instilled the catch and release and you're doing it for the experience attitude, plus I realized at a young age that I didn't go fishing for the killing/eating part so why bother with that, but I've been on boats where this is the mindset and I've had to sit on the sidelines as to not catch any more fish in fears of them being gaffed and killed despite my wanting to release and it's a horrible feeling. 

 

I'm a firm believer that these six-pack boats conducting this sort of fishing are causing a trickle-down effect on future anglers aboard.  Lots of people on those boats are very inexperienced and when they see the crew and captain, who they think are prime examples of good 'anglers,' gaffing and filleting everything in sight, they think that's normal and what should happen when you go fishing.  'Oh, I fish for food. That's the point.'  Then they go buy a boat or fish from shore and kill everything in sight.  People really need to figure things out for themselves but they need to be given a chance.

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16 hours ago, CWitek said:

I wonder whether this is still fallout from the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council's research set-aside program.  RSA allowed fishermen to purchase quantities of fish, which they could then catch during the otherwise closed season.  The money went for legitimate research, often by Sea Grant, and the out of season fish often commanded a higher pride, making it a win-win situation.

 

But some New York commercials began conniving with dealers, bringing in illegal fish and using RSA as a get-out-of-jail-free card should they get caught.  The dealers would label the fish as some other species (just as the "Codfather" did up in New Bedford), and the fisherman and dealers would split the benefits.  Eventually, a few fishermen and dealers got caught, and suffered some appropriate penalties, and the Mid-Atlantic Council suspended the RSA program.

 

The underlying offenses here date back to 2014-2016, which may have been a time when RSA was still in effect, and this is just one more example of the problems inherent in bringing it back.

RSA was the fox guarding the henhouse, the Captree party boats in no way were filling out legit VTR's

If you try to change it, you will ruin it. Try to hold it, and you will lose it.

 

Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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13 hours ago, Saltfruit said:


Very interesting.

And in situations to this extreme - implied responsibility isn't incurred? The vessel operator has no legal obligation to even encourage regulation-following?

 

Obviously is pays for them to ignore their customers in this area. But trying these operators for willful negligence is a different case from whether or not said anglers are poaching - correct?

I've seen one particular captain tell his customers "You can keep 12.5" sea bass because we are in federal waters now" not that's a d-bag because some of those passengers don't know any better

If you try to change it, you will ruin it. Try to hold it, and you will lose it.

 

Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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7 mins ago, Sandflee said:

I've seen one particular captain tell his customers "You can keep 12.5" sea bass because we are in federal waters now" not that's a d-bag because some of those passengers don't know any better

That would probably be good enough to earn him a ticket if a DEC agent was aboard (and yes, once in a while--although not often enough--they will run undercover stings if they get complaints about a particular boat).

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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11 hours ago, z-man said:

Even if they get fined 100K the fish they sold were supposedly worth 250K so 150K profit is a pretty good payday. Crime pays well. 

Yes, but sometimes the penalties are a little more severe.

 

From an earlier Long Island fluke poaching case:

 

RSA Scammer Sentenced for 290,000 Pounds of Illegal Summer Flounder

October 09, 2015

 

Today, an investigation initiated in July 2010 by NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement (OLE) culminated in the sentencing of a Levittown, NY, fisherman, who was convicted of mail fraud, wire fraud, and falsifying federal records charges.

NE_Flounder Catch 01.png

Today, an investigation initiated in July 2010 by NOAA’s Office of Law Enforcement (OLE) culminated in the sentencing of a Levittown, NY, fisherman, who was convicted of mail fraud, wire fraud, and falsifying federal records charges.

 

Anthony Joseph was sentenced to seven months incarceration and three years of supervised release by federal court in the Eastern District of New York. Joseph was also ordered to pay $603,400 in combined fines and forfeitures.

 

The RSA program was established as a mechanism to fund research and compensate vessel owners through the sale of fish harvested under a research quota or research days at sea. When using set-aside days or quota, vessels were often exempt from trip limits, some seasonal closures, or other restrictions that would otherwise apply.

 

However, numerous people, including Joseph, found ways to misuse the program which led to its reorganization and restructuring.

 

In all, OLE agents determined that Joseph filed 158 false fishing logs and was complicit in the submission of 167 false dealer reports. These violations led to a plea of four felony charges.

 

“Illegal and unreported landings of this magnitude seriously affect the successful management of New York’s summer flounder fishery,” said Special Agent Todd Smith. “Enforcement of extreme violations such as these is necessary to help protect our Nation’s valuable marine fisheries resources.”

 

Joseph concealed the over-harvests by underreporting his total catch to NOAA. He then used two cooperating dealers to file false federal dealer reports to avoid detection. The two related dealers, Alan Dresner and Jones Inlet Seafood, have been charged and the cases have been adjudicated.

 

“NOAA continues to make the enforcement of illegal, unreported fishing a top priority,” said Eileen Sobeck, Assistant Administrator for NOAA Fisheries. “This case represents a domestic example of a global problem that NOAA is committed to curtailing.”

 

To date this is one of seven cases to reach adjudication involving violations of the RSA program. OLE special agents spent more than two years working to break down this illicit, highly organized scheme to catch and land illegal fluke.

 

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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11 mins ago, CWitek said:

That would probably be good enough to earn him a ticket if a DEC agent was aboard (and yes, once in a while--although not often enough--they will run undercover stings if they get complaints about a particular boat).

He does it everyday of the summer Seabass season, gets his limit of 12.5" fish then goes for ling

If you try to change it, you will ruin it. Try to hold it, and you will lose it.

 

Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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23 mins ago, Sandflee said:

I've seen one particular captain tell his customers "You can keep 12.5" sea bass because we are in federal waters now" not that's a d-bag because some of those passengers don't know any better


Right. Some people just a buy a ticket and go for the experience.

But dbag wants to "ensure a good time."

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4 mins ago, Sandflee said:

He does it everyday of the summer Seabass season, gets his limit of 12.5" fish then goes for ling

If you give Lt, Sean Reilly at the Marine Enforcement Unit a call this season, he might well want to look into it.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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18 hours ago, Ba Ba Buoy said:

 

I suppose that's true.... In the same way  that a child stealing gum from the drugstore counter and Bernie Madoff are also both criminals. There are degrees of scumminess and these particular "commercial" poachers are a 10 of 10.

True enough, but I often wonder about the numbers. The white bucket brigade might only keep one or two illegal fish, but they sure outnumber the commercial guy that want to cheat by a huge amount.

====Mako Mike====
Makomania Sportfishing
Pt. Judith, RI
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