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Drew C.

Modern sealed drag reels

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I have to say, not a fan. I had a nice fish on today, went to back off the drag and the entire spool popped off. The reel in question was a Ross Evolution R. On the drag hub, the top part must have come loose and I backed off the drag - plop went the spool into waist deep 50 degree water. I landed the fish and got soaked getting the spool back. IMHO - too many moving parts and a crappy design but many of the 'new' reel are like this now. Bitch fest over.

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All reels with threads on the rotational center and in the handle suffer from failure potential of being screwed loose/open.

 

 

I have the Evolution R Salt 9/10. I am 99% sure it is the same reel as Abel SDS in different clothes.

I tend to open all my reels if possible and did it with the Ross too.

 

The spool retaining screw is quite unlikely to open as it seems to jam more often than not and is difficult to open. Thus low failure potential in my opinion. Many reels have similar method of spool locking (shape lock for rotation that is kept in place by axial screw/thread). Of my other reels that means Mako, Nautilus CCF-X2 and Hardy Ultralite DD. If not tightened properly, the spool will wobble and possibly come loose. If tightened well enough, tendency is to stick a bit instead of becoming loose as there is really no opening torque possible to apply on the screw/thread from the reel or spool.

 

The spindle assembly thread was with some blue stuff. Most likely Loctite 242 or similar. Would have not opened accidentally. I have not added any, but I tighten this quite hard with fingers (large thread so it should be able to take easily). In theory could open during reeling in if LH wind and with RH wind during fish's run.

 

The drag housing was very tight (it had some white elastic thread sealant on it). It has to be, otherwise there is a risk of it coming unscrewed due to drag on RH wind reels. Thus the opening torque needs to be higher than max used drag torque. On LH wind reels this risk is minimal.

 

The culprit is not the complexity of the reel, the culprit is threaded joint that has had too low opening torque.

The prevent the above is to have high enough tightness on the threaded joint, which can be limited due to thread size and material (aluminium) and/or apply thread lock (or thread sealant that increases the opening torque).

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11 hours ago, BrianBM said:

OK. Fair 'nuff.

 

Does anyone have experience with this reel?

 

Meaning no offence, this sounds like user error.

Yes and no. I've never opened that part of the reel (one would open it to convert L-R or vice versa). It must have loosened some how and that's certainly on me for not paying attention to it.

 

My main point was the old cork plate reels, nothing to really fail there. Between my issue and the possibility of the bearing failing (it will, sooner or later) there are chances for problems. Amazingingly, things always seem to fail when you need them most.

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3 hours ago, sms said:

All reels with threads on the rotational center and in the handle suffer from failure potential of being screwed loose/open.

 

 

I have the Evolution R Salt 9/10. I am 99% sure it is the same reel as Abel SDS in different clothes.

I tend to open all my reels if possible and did it with the Ross too.

 

The spool retaining screw is quite unlikely to open as it seems to jam more often than not and is difficult to open. Thus low failure potential in my opinion. Many reels have similar method of spool locking (shape lock for rotation that is kept in place by axial screw/thread). Of my other reels that means Mako, Nautilus CCF-X2 and Hardy Ultralite DD. If not tightened properly, the spool will wobble and possibly come loose. If tightened well enough, tendency is to stick a bit instead of becoming loose as there is really no opening torque possible to apply on the screw/thread from the reel or spool.

 

The spindle assembly thread was with some blue stuff. Most likely Loctite 242 or similar. Would have not opened accidentally. I have not added any, but I tighten this quite hard with fingers (large thread so it should be able to take easily). In theory could open during reeling in if LH wind and with RH wind during fish's run.

 

The drag housing was very tight (it had some white elastic thread sealant on it). It has to be, otherwise there is a risk of it coming unscrewed due to drag on RH wind reels. Thus the opening torque needs to be higher than max used drag torque. On LH wind reels this risk is minimal.

 

The culprit is not the complexity of the reel, the culprit is threaded joint that has had too low opening torque.

The prevent the above is to have high enough tightness on the threaded joint, which can be limited due to thread size and material (aluminium) and/or apply thread lock (or thread sealant that increases the opening torque).

I have an SDS, they're similar if not the same. 

 

To be clear, it was the drag housing 'nut' that loosened, not the spool from the reel. But when it loosened the entire spool plopped off. In the pic below, it was the piece on the left. 

 

The spool itself, that's not real easy to come undone.

 

ps - i missed your last part - yes, too few threads. It looks like only 2-3. Again, my point is it is another part to fail or break.

 

IMG_0635.jpeg

Edited by Drew C.

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Here are some residues of the thread lock I had on my spindle assembly. There is just under 3 revs from tightened to completely open. That is enough. You when closing and tightening, you want to keep the part outside the thread clean so that the flanges are touching each others cleanly.

rossevospindleassyloctite.PNG.69735ba32f504905335a4cf39b5bd558.PNG

 

If the thread is loose/not tight enough, the torque the clicker exerts on it, could open it. Even worse if there is sand or something else in there too which can more or less lock the shaft to the spindle housing and then it will screw the spindle assembly off from the drag housing quite easily.

28822099_10156293075467147_828623026_o.jpg.0e8deeeffd2d94ab84dae9e3b018a9d6.jpg

 

Or if the bearing in the spindle is stuck, then that could exert necessary opening torque.

28810254_10156293075297147_1708100248_o.jpg.12d5622efb4ab30d71dc6fe29cb1dcac.jpg

 

I don't consider this reel sealed or maintenance free. The sealing faces may not even be touching each others as the spring under the clicker ring with "pins" is pushing the shaft side (to which the notched clicker ring is merged into) with the plastic sealing face away from the sealing face on the spindle housing.

 

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Just now, sms said:

Here are some residues of the thread lock I had on my spindle assembly. There is just under 3 revs from tightened to completely open. That is enough. You when closing and tightening, you want to keep the part outside the thread clean so that the flanges are touching each others cleanly.

rossevospindleassyloctite.PNG.69735ba32f504905335a4cf39b5bd558.PNG

 

If the thread is loose/not tight enough, the torque the clicker exerts on it, could open it. Even worse if there is sand or something else in there too which can more or less lock the shaft to the spindle housing and then it will screw the spindle assembly off from the drag housing quite easily.

28822099_10156293075467147_828623026_o.jpg.0e8deeeffd2d94ab84dae9e3b018a9d6.jpg

 

Or if the bearing in the spindle is stuck, then that could exert necessary opening torque.

28810254_10156293075297147_1708100248_o.jpg.12d5622efb4ab30d71dc6fe29cb1dcac.jpg

 

I don't consider this reel sealed or maintenance free. The sealing faces may not even be touching each others as the spring under the clicker ring with "pins" is pushing the shaft side (to which the notched clicker ring is merged into) with the plastic sealing face away from the sealing face on the spindle housing.

 

Thanks. 
 

i agree. They are not maintenance free. I will be checking all of mine now and every so often going forward. 
 

im sure many don’t and consider them sealed and essentially maintenance free. 

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19 hours ago, Drew C. said:

I have to say, not a fan. I had a nice fish on today, went to back off the drag and the entire spool popped off. The reel in question was a Ross Evolution R. On the drag hub, the top part must have come loose and I backed off the drag - plop went the spool into waist deep 50 degree water. I landed the fish and got soaked getting the spool back. IMHO - too many moving parts and a crappy design but many of the 'new' reel are like this now. Bitch fest over.

I’m going to take a guess that you are a right hand crank ? 

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37 mins ago, foulhook said:

I’m going to take a guess that you are a right hand crank ? 

Yup. 
 

Keep in mind, it’s a trout reel on a euro rod, not exactly doing a lot of reeling or dealing with fish that make blistering runs.... Plus, it’s on the newer side. I’ve had it 7 months and it’s on a rod that I haven’t been using a lot during that time. 
 

I will check them after every trip going forward. 

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15 mins ago, Drew C. said:

Yup. 
 

Keep in mind, it’s a trout reel on a euro rod, not exactly doing a lot of reeling or dealing with fish that make blistering runs.... Plus, it’s on the newer side. I’ve had it 7 months and it’s on a rod that I haven’t been using a lot during that time. 
 

I will check them after every trip going forward. 

I figure SMS is also a right crank. This is because most fly reels threads are standard right hand. When you are right hand crank incoming crank won’t be a problem because you’re cranking in the tightening direction of the threads. However, when drag is running out (especially under good load) that pressure is going in the loosening direction of the threads. If the the threads aren’t tight enough you can loosen the spool or the drag assembly in this case. On my reels I use a tapered thread for this reason. Start coarse and tighten the threads towards stop. This allows them to bite Into each other better. 
 

The recommendation to use 242 is a good one. It will definitely work. You could also use something like o-ring that will provide back pressure on the threads kinda like a lock washer works. If it were me I would actually start with one wrap of Teflon tape around the threads and then put the hub back on. This will make up for loose tolerance on those threads. Filling the extra space if you will 
 

as you stated it’s strange that this happened on a freshwater reel. Unless maybe you had the drag set medium and were stripping line off under pressure for a good amount of time? Maybe it wasn’t fully tight when you started as well? 

Edited by foulhook

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Posted (edited) · Report post

So far, they reels have been used on trout, max is not much more than 20”. 
 

we are really dealing with powerful fish or long runs here. Hopefully, it was either not fully tight from the factory or the shop didn’t fully tighten if they changed it for me when I bought it. Because, if that’s not the case and it’s from what I’ve used the reel for, that ain’t good. 

Edited by Drew C.

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Just to be clear. Try doing one full wrap of Teflon tape around these threads I highlighted in green. See if it’s tighter feeling when screwing it down. Let me know if it helps 

435A88A5-1D99-4B36-BF22-E1EB8B1CE068.jpeg

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1 min ago, Drew C. said:

So far, they reels have been used on trout, max is not much more than 20”. 
 

we are really dealing with powerful fish or long runs here. Hopefully, it was either not fully tight from the factory or the shop didn’t fully tighten if they changed it for me when I bought it. Because, if it’s from what I’ve used the reel for, that ain’t good. 

I agree drew, I’m guessing it was likely loose to start. When you tighten it down there should be at least a little resistance when you tighten it down. Especially towards the end. Try one wrap of Teflon tape and pay attention to how much resistance you feel tightening it down. You should notice a difference. Let me know if that helps 

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15 mins ago, foulhook said:

I figure SMS is also a right crank.

Nope. LH crank. So only winding opens stuff. Only one that I can remember has been Sage 8010pro on which I hadn’t tightened and locked (there’s a locking screw) the spindle housing. User error. Took the spool off, tightened with fingers and kept fishing the day.

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