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Targeting spawning striped bass is a g.d disgrace

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On 3/30/2021 at 3:16 PM, MakoMike said:

So? I've caught 6 inch stripers in the Mianus river and I know they weren't hatched there.

The Hudson river, where there's a major spawn, is pretty close to the Mianus. Fish falling back from the Hudson can go up the east river into LI sound then over to Mianus. 

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17 hours ago, MakoMike said:

You're leaving out the fact that MD does not allow any fishing for striped bass when theThery are spawning. Once the spawn is over all of the bigger females migrate out of the bay, so for most of the year all they have is males and some small females.

There's some relatively new research that's putting that "males only" in serious question.  It was done by a team led by Dr. David H. Secor, who certainly has a lot of experience and credibility when it comes to striped bass science.

 

They did acoustic tagging of bass of various sizes caught in Chesapeake Bay, and found that both males and females leave the bay at the same time and at the same size.  The paper is "Differential Migration in Chesapeake Bay Striped Bass," and it was printed in Plos One last April or May.  I'm pretty sure that it's accessible on line.

 

I believe that there have also been other fairly recent studies that cast doubt on the "males stay in the Bay" story.

 

What we need is a physical survey of the bass actually caught by Bay anglers during the summer, which would definitively answer the question.,

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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12 hours ago, SaltChaser said:

Fishing the east end of Long Island and watching the commercial netters pass by no more than a few hundred yards from shore, speaking to a few guys on the beach in the following nights - yeah there haven’t been any fish since the netters passed by the other night. The SB are fished irresponsibly up and down the east coast but between the party boats (multiple trips a day - keeping shorts and overs, and throwing the fish off the boat without the ability to revive the fish) and commercial fishing, I feel these have a larger impact than the beach guys most of who will C&R and take the time to revive the fish. Regardless of season and spawning, I feel those 2 factors have been playing a major role in decrease in SB population

As far as the comparative damage done by party boats and folks fishing from shore, these are the official numbers for fish that are either retained or returned to the water dead:

 

2015    Surfcasters:  26,705 bass     Party boats:  7,972 bass

2016    Surfcasters:  20,061 bass     Party boats:  3,524 bass

2017    Surfcasters:  39,776 bass     Party boats: 16,572 bass

2018    Surfcasters:  59,173 bass     Party boats:   2,817 bass

2019    Surfcasters:  10,234 bass     Party boats:   2,026 bass

 

The surf estimates are shaky, with the percent standard error ranging from 48.1 to 92.5, which makes them useless for management purposes.  But the party boat estimates are, if still somewhat uncertain, quite a bit better, with PSEs ranging from 19.1 to 54.6.

 

The people who are really killing the bass are recreational fishermen in private boats.  Annual kills during the period range between 102,500 (PSE=25.8) in 2018 to 631,588 (PSE=23.9) in 2016.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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2 mins ago, CWitek said:

As far as the comparative damage done by party boats and folks fishing from shore, these are the official numbers for fish that are either retained or returned to the water dead:

 

2015    Surfcasters:  26,705 bass     Party boats:  7,972 bass

2016    Surfcasters:  20,061 bass     Party boats:  3,524 bass

2017    Surfcasters:  39,776 bass     Party boats: 16,572 bass

2018    Surfcasters:  59,173 bass     Party boats:   2,817 bass

2019    Surfcasters:  10,234 bass     Party boats:   2,026 bass

 

The surf estimates are shaky, with the percent standard error ranging from 48.1 to 92.5, which makes them useless for management purposes.  But the party boat estimates are, if still somewhat uncertain, quite a bit better, with PSEs ranging from 19.1 to 54.6.

 

The people who are really killing the bass are recreational fishermen in private boats.  Annual kills during the period range between 102,500 (PSE=25.8) in 2018 to 631,588 (PSE=23.9) in 2016.

There is no possible way that the count for party boats is even close, when you figure in COVID times that there are 30 people per boat, I have witnessed it myself...full boat limit 3x per day. That’s one boat....add all the party boats on Long Island and logic says that number is BS - 2k. 

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Just now, SaltChaser said:

There is no possible way that the count for party boats is even close, when you figure in COVID times that there are 30 people per boat, I have witnessed it myself...full boat limit 3x per day. That’s one boat....add all the party boats on Long Island and logic says that number is BS - 2k. 

You're leaving out the times that they get skunked, or don't catch too much.  

 

It's always a mistake to take the non-systematic observations of a single individual, taken over a limited time in a limited space, and use them in arguments about statewide landings patterns.  They are valid for forming opinions, but should never be confused with facts.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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Party boats certainly catch fish but it’s boom and bust. They aren’t making 2-3 trips per day, every single day of the year.
 

They sail when Bass are seasonally - that’s spring and fall and while big catches are possible and definitely publicized on social media and the like but they also don’t promote the down days which certainly happen as well. 
 

the other aspect of the party boat issue is that all of the other potential seasonal fisheries now suck so party boats don’t have many options. 
 

 

ASMFC - Destroying public resources and fisheries one stock at a time since 1942.

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If anyone here that is interested in doing the right thing - you need to read Charles' blog if you don't already do so. It is essential. His last one was especially good. Google 'one angler's voyage' if you don't know about it.

ASMFC - Destroying public resources and fisheries one stock at a time since 1942.

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1 hour ago, Drew C. said:

If anyone here that is interested in doing the right thing - you need to read Charles' blog if you don't already do so. It is essential. His last one was especially good. Google 'one angler's voyage' if you don't know about it.

What he said 

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I just watched the video uploaded of that kayak guy releasing 58 pounder after taking who knows how long to have both his buddies pedal over and hold the yak so he could weigh it on the boga. That fish is pregnant and already under a lot of stress. Then the release was the worst attempt I’ve ever seen.

 

I bet that fish died

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3 hours ago, Pickerel92 said:

I just watched the video uploaded of that kayak guy releasing 58 pounder after taking who knows how long to have both his buddies pedal over and hold the yak so he could weigh it on the boga. That fish is pregnant and already under a lot of stress. Then the release was the worst attempt I’ve ever seen.

 

I bet that fish died

It didn’t look very lively when he released it but who knows. Maybe he kept it in the water in between photos. If it was hung by the jaw on the boga then it probably has a broken jaw at minimum. 58 lbs is a lot of weight to be supported by a jaw. Would you lift a 10 year old kid up by the jaw?

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24 mins ago, z-man said:

It didn’t look very lively when he released it but who knows. Maybe he kept it in the water in between photos. If it was hung by the jaw on the boga then it probably has a broken jaw at minimum. 58 lbs is a lot of weight to be supported by a jaw. Would you lift a 10 year old kid up by the jaw?

 

 

Another debate, let's hear the wilfully blind split hairs on how it's only this damaging or that damaging to hang a fish from a boga...make bellieve meat fishermen as they go.

Edited by DeepBlue85
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13 hours ago, Pickerel92 said:

I just watched the video uploaded of that kayak guy releasing 58 pounder after taking who knows how long to have both his buddies pedal over and hold the yak so he could weigh it on the boga. That fish is pregnant and already under a lot of stress. Then the release was the worst attempt I’ve ever seen.

 

I bet that fish died

Yeah. But that putz will brag about the release and swear that the fish lived. Probably part of the ‘I release everything carefully crew’. 

Edited by Drew C.

ASMFC - Destroying public resources and fisheries one stock at a time since 1942.

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1 hour ago, Drew C. said:

Yeah. But that putz will brag and the release and swear that the fish lived. Probably part of the ‘I release everything carefully crew’. 

But he sold out of plugs after posting that picture......

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22 mins ago, MikeK said:

But he sold out of plugs after posting that picture......

What does that say about fishermen that when we see a picture of someone catching a big fish we need to immediate buy that lure. Pathetic, desperate, gullible? I’m sure that fish would have hit a variety of lures. Right place at the right time is what matters. 

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On 3/24/2021 at 7:23 PM, DeepBlue85 said:

There...I said it.... come tell me I'm wrong.

I've said it before ,caught no short amount of grief for it but I'll say it again;QUIT FISHING FOR STRIPERS! Quit being so GD selfish and thinking it's your right to to fish a critically endangered species.So what if the "law" allows,look how the coastal stocks are managed and tell me they know what they're doing in regards to laws managing fish stocks...cuz they don't!

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