DeepBlue85

Targeting spawning striped bass is a g.d disgrace

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31 mins ago, tristate said:

I may have misunderstood nfnDrum. I thought he was asking where the 18” rule came from historically, before the first crash in Striper population. I believe there was a commercial fishery in the past.

There was, but PCBs in the river from an old GE transformer plant shut down the commercial fishery before the moratorium.  

 

That being said, we were all amazed that as soon as a bass passed under the George Washington Bridge it's PCB levels dropped to a safe one...

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9 mins ago, Roccus7 said:

There was, but PCBs in the river from an old GE transformer plant shut down the commercial fishery before the moratorium.  

 

That being said, we were all amazed that as soon as a bass passed under the George Washington Bridge it's PCB levels dropped to a safe one...

I still think that’s not being utilized properly. Every state (except MD) has significant consumption advisories for Bass.
 

Does anyone think Bass would sell for $20/lb or $30/plate if there was a sticker detailing the advisory in the market or on the menu?

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Just now, Drew C. said:

I still think that’s not being utilized properly. Every state (except MD) has significant consumption advisories for Bass.
 

Does anyone think Bass would sell for $20/lb or $30/plate if there was a sticker detailing the advisory in the market or on the menu?

I don't think MA has a warning either...

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1 hour ago, Roccus7 said:

There was, but PCBs in the river from an old GE transformer plant shut down the commercial fishery before the moratorium.  

 

That being said, we were all amazed that as soon as a bass passed under the George Washington Bridge it's PCB levels dropped to a safe one...

 

Clever point

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 We all ultimately want the fish we love to have an ideal future and at some point it becomes more about fishing's future, than our own who simply pursue it.   I'v speant the better part of my life chasing, appreciating and trying to understand a fish that represents a place in the natural world and in doing so realised the responsibility we have outweighs time spent fishing for them, as it should.  Maybe it's a sign of the times that things need to change...

 

Edited by DeepBlue85

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15 hours ago, z-man said:

A pretty simple and logical way to manage all fish species would be to have closed seasons during their spawning season. We have the science showing when and where all species spawn so shut it down appropriately. Seems like common sense but I guess there is none of that with fisheries management. 

It's actually not that simple.

 

If you talk to a biologist, they'll tell you that it doesn't matter when a fish is taken.  Yes, if you remove a fish from the population just before it spawns, it won't spawn that year--but if you killed it six months earlier, it wouldn't spawn that year, either.  Either way, it was removed from the population.  If you're managing for the long term, you're always removing a fish before it has a chance to spawn again; whether it is removed one day, one week, one month, or nearly one year before the next spawning period, it's still not going to spawn again.

 

The key is maintaining the overall removal rate low enough so that there will always be enough fish in the spawning stocik, regardless of when they're removed.

 

The argument against fishing on spawning fish is that fishing on spawning aggregations can make it easier to take a lot of fish at one time, which will increase the removal rate compared to a spawning period closure.  Spawning on aggregations can also disrupt the spawn itself; for example, removing male black sea bass just before the spawn, which is structured around dominant males, can disrupt spawning aggregations because the species is a protogynous hermaphrodite, and females won't transition to males in time to repair the damage.  Fish with similar lifestyles--and hermaphrodism is very common in grouper, as well as in other species--are impacted the same way.

 

Catching and releasing a pre-spawn female can also disrupt the spawning process due to stress, etc.

 

But merely removing a pre-spawn fish, as opposed to a post-spawn fish, is generally not considered an issue, because a post-spawn fish is, if you look far enough ahead, a pre-spawn fish, too.

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15 hours ago, cheech said:

 The Chessie accounts for 70% of the population, anyone know the % breakdown between the Hudson and Delaware? Do CT. rivers support spawning?

  Lateral Line, please share, how do you target male stripers, and then females post spawn, size of bait?

The proportions contributed by the various rivers differs from year to year.  Given the situation that we're in right now, with the Chesapeake producing two very low year classes in a row, while the Hudson spawns remain strong, it's possible that the 70% number that you quoted for the Chesapeake is a little high.

 

When the last stock assessment tried to design a two-stock population model (which, in the end, failed to pass peer review), the contributions from each major estuary that it used was 78% Chesapeake (2/3 Maryland, 1/3 Virginia), 13% Hudson, 9% Delaware.  (p. 548 of the stock assessment report)  But that number will vary depending on the relative strength of the stocks at any one time.

 

To the best of anyone's knowlege, there is no spawning taking place in Connecticut; back in the late 1970s/early 1980s, there was some speculation that spawning was taking place in the Connecticut River, due to the number of young of the year fish being found there.  However, the forerunner of what is now the DEEP stated with complete confidence that no spawning was occurring; instead, the fish were believed to have been spawned in the Hudson, and reached the Connecticut River as they sought suitable nursery areas outside of the river.

 

There are a lot of old reports of bass spawning in places other than the Chesapeake, Delaware, and Hudson; the Navesink River in New Jersey is often cited, as it was fish caught there there were transplanted to California a century ago.  Whether those reports are accurate, and the spawning runs have been wiped out and/or the rivers have been so transformed that they no longer meet the bass' spawning needs (which are very specific in terms of salinity, flow, turbidity, etc.), or whether the reports are mistaken, is open for debate.  However, bass will recolonize former spawning grounds.  A recent genetic study indicates that the fish spawning in the Delaware estuary are of Chesapeake origin; the speculation is that the original Delaware fish were largely wiped out by pollution, and the region was recolonized by Chesapeake fish, which may have accessed the Delaware through a canal that connects the waterways.  And the bass that spawn in the Kennebec River in Maine are genetically Hudson fish, which were transplanted there in the late 20th Century to replace a run that had been wiped out by industrial activity.

 

So the fact that no bass have recolonized other coastal rivers, although bass are present there during the year, may suggest either that the river never supported a run or that, if it did, the conditions that supported the former run no longer exist.

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14 hours ago, Roccus7 said:

There was, but PCBs in the river from an old GE transformer plant shut down the commercial fishery before the moratorium.  

 

That being said, we were all amazed that as soon as a bass passed under the George Washington Bridge it's PCB levels dropped to a safe one...

Actually, it didn't work that way.

 

When New York imposed its striped bass moratorium back in the '80s, it was imposed by the Health Department and not by the DEC, because it was based on the PCBs in the Hudson fish.  While the commercial fishery was reinstated, it is still illegal to commercially fish for striped bass west of Wading River on the North Shore and west of Debs Inlet on the South Shore because that is where most of the Hudson Bay fish are believed to be found during the summer (which, particularly when the Chesapeake stock is depleted, probably isn't the case, but...)

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14 hours ago, Drew C. said:

I still think that’s not being utilized properly. Every state (except MD) has significant consumption advisories for Bass.
 

Does anyone think Bass would sell for $20/lb or $30/plate if there was a sticker detailing the advisory in the market or on the menu?

I've always thought that it was interesting that New York issues a health warning on bass, and includes it in its regulation book, but doesn't require the same warning to be posted in fish markets and on restaurant menus--although it does require warnings about the risks of raw shellfish or undercooked eggs.

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Just now, CWitek said:

Actually, it didn't work that way.

 

When New York imposed its striped bass moratorium back in the '80s, it was imposed by the Health Department and not by the DEC, because it was based on the PCBs in the Hudson fish.  While the commercial fishery was reinstated, it is still illegal to commercially fish for striped bass west of Wading River on the North Shore and west of Debs Inlet on the South Shore because that is where most of the Hudson Bay fish are believed to be found during the summer (which, particularly when the Chesapeake stock is depleted, probably isn't the case, but...)

Thanks Charlie, memory has faded...  Debs is a whole lot further west than Wading River, and it's all the "same miraculous scenario", when a fish passes a specific spot, it suddenly has dropped its PCB levels...

 

On the other hand the hole PCB thing had one silver lining, at least it got a very extensive tagging program started.  Over the past 4 years I've caught 4 Hudson River Foundation tagged bass up here in Maine, and of the 2 other tagged fish I've caught, the Berkeley Striper tagged one in NJ was also probably from the Hudson.  The other fish is a "damned if I know one," tagged in NH 2 weeks earlier than my capture date.  

 

Regardless, all of these data emphasize that those "magic lines" ain't so magic...

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Posted (edited) · Report post

1 hour ago, CWitek said:

The argument against fishing on spawning fish is that fishing on spawning aggregations can make it easier to take a lot of fish at one time, which will increase the removal rate compared to a spawning period closure.  Spawning on aggregations can also disrupt the spawn itself; for example, removing male black sea bass just before the spawn, which is structured around dominant males, can disrupt spawning aggregations because the species is a protogynous hermaphrodite, and females won't transition to males in time to repair the damage.  Fish with similar lifestyles--and hermaphrodism is very common in grouper, as well as in other species--are impacted the same way.

 

Catching and releasing a pre-spawn female can also disrupt the spawning process due to stress, etc.

 

But merely removing a pre-spawn fish, as opposed to a post-spawn fish, is generally not considered an issue, because a post-spawn fish is, if you look far enough ahead, a pre-spawn fish, too.

 

 

 

I think that's the main issue without question....that too many fish fill into these areas and are easily available or susceptible to spawning disruption....if not being harvested altogether .  

 

Which is why to me it's a loose loose fishery that shouldnt exist especially in times of over harvest.  

Edited by DeepBlue85

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I have harvested my fair share of bass in the 90's with loaded with eggs. For what ever reason she did not drop it. 

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