flyangler

Articulated flies in the salt? Specifically, for snook on beaches?

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Putting aside the double-entendre names for a second, that kerfuffle solidified something that was rolling around in my head:

 

Would articulated flies offer any action/movement advantage for getting snook to bite in the surf?
 

That fly angler offering the virtue signaling out of Oregon had me looking at Kelly Galloup's latest offerings as "research" and I decided to buy some of the larger T&As (that's Tandems and Articulated for you pervs who read something else into that.)


The Double Deceiver is exactly what it sounds like, two Deceivers tired in tandem. Like all of these, they are connected with a mono loop which looks like 20# mono (guesstimate).

 

The Sluggo looks like it will push water and likely need some help sinking.
 

The Tips Up has foam cones on the trialing section that Galloup says "is the first streamer to create action without you doing a thing. This fly has a floating rear end so when you stop stripping the fly, the tail tries to float back up-- automatically creating action to the fly." 

 

The Pearl Necklace uses UV shimmer fringe which, while triggering strikes with brown trout, may or may not translate from FW to SW. 

 

The Twerking Minnow, designed by Steve Daily, comes with a weightless fisheye head and a weighted skull head. I ordered the latter for situations where you need to get the fly to sink a bit quicker than you line, tips or leader may allow. 
 

So, has anyone tried articulated streamers in the salt? 


 

Top to bottom: 

Left side - 2 Double Deceivers, CJ's Sluggo 

Right, pervy side - Tips Up, Pearl Necklace, Daily's Twerking Minnow. 
 

 

43682838-D34C-4581-9CF0-469C4DC47C47.jpeg.a9beb5e5290e9069836461fb13612d80.jpeg

 

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I use patterns with rear stinger hooks only a ton in the salt, but not quite the way those are tied up. I’m not fishing for snook either.

 

I tie them so the stinger hook is right at the back of the tail.

For short striking fish utilizing a two handed strike it will convert a lot of strikes to hook ups.

They aren’t great for headhunter species.

SF

Edited by Stonefish

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9 mins ago, Stonefish said:

They aren’t great for headhunter species.

SF

Actually, many of Galloup’s patterns evolved with a relatively short shanked hook up front because they found that brown trout would hit the head, either as a territorial strike or to stun a prey fish if it were meant as food. the trailer hook was for rear striking browns, rainbows and just to get the articulation going with a little motion. 

 

But the most popular pattern which Galloup sold but did not design was Ray Schmidt's Rattlesnake. As Schmidt explains at Global Flyfisher: 

 

 

Ray Schmidt - Rattlesnake

 

In 1985 I started guiding a stretch of water on the Manistee River in Northern Michigan known as Hodenpyl. This is a remote piece of water directly below Hodenpyl Dam.

 

This water was and is renowned for its exceptionally large brown trout. We were successful with these fish two ways. First, during the famous "Hex" hatch, we drummed these monsters up after dark with our big dry offerings.


The second method was not so easy. I met a fellow angler on the river as I floated. We hit it off and he shared with me his secret for his success. Looked like a half chicken and deer tied to a 6X long hook size 2 hook. We nicknamed our copy "The Youngblood Special" after this man, Ed Youngblood.

 

I always take things to the extreme

 

I always take things to the extreme, so I increased the fly size and hook length to a Partridge CS 10 size 2. 10X long!

 

The fly brought fish, no question, but it lacked the ability to hook and keep them thru the fight. After much frustration and observation I discovered that the fish were grabbing the fly by the head and when they were tired of the fight they simply opened their mouth and let go.


The light bulb blinked on. A short shank hook up front and a stinger trailer.

 

I love the Muddler style fly, and since there are tons of Sculpins in this river, I was headed down the right track. I separated the front hook and the back hook with brass beads and proceeded to tie a Rabbit Strip Muddler. The fly reminded me of a Rattlesnake for two reasons, first the beads looked like a Rattlesnake tail and second while tying the fly the trailer hook would frequently bite me.


Hmmmm... looks like a Rattlesnake and bites like a Rattlesnake... 

 

The Rattlesnake was born!

 

FA1FD6BC-778E-4A21-ACCF-4A429A0FF0FB.jpeg.b1221cf86860e084ab7f1d5c02510558.jpeg

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5 mins ago, flyangler said:

Actually, many of Galloup’s patterns evolved with a relatively short shanked hook up front because they found that brown trout would hit the head, either as a territorial strike or to stun a prey fish if it were meant as food. the trailer hook was for rear striking browns, rainbows and just to get the articulation going with a little motion. 

 

But the most popular pattern which Galloup sold but did not design was Ray Schmidt's Rattlesnake. As Schmidt explains at Global Flyfisher: 

 

 

Ray Schmidt - Rattlesnake

 

In 1985 I started guiding a stretch of water on the Manistee River in Northern Michigan known as Hodenpyl. This is a remote piece of water directly below Hodenpyl Dam.

 

This water was and is renowned for its exceptionally large brown trout. We were successful with these fish two ways. First, during the famous "Hex" hatch, we drummed these monsters up after dark with our big dry offerings.


The second method was not so easy. I met a fellow angler on the river as I floated. We hit it off and he shared with me his secret for his success. Looked like a half chicken and deer tied to a 6X long hook size 2 hook. We nicknamed our copy "The Youngblood Special" after this man, Ed Youngblood.

 

I always take things to the extreme

 

I always take things to the extreme, so I increased the fly size and hook length to a Partridge CS 10 size 2. 10X long!

 

The fly brought fish, no question, but it lacked the ability to hook and keep them thru the fight. After much frustration and observation I discovered that the fish were grabbing the fly by the head and when they were tired of the fight they simply opened their mouth and let go.


The light bulb blinked on. A short shank hook up front and a stinger trailer.

 

I love the Muddler style fly, and since there are tons of Sculpins in this river, I was headed down the right track. I separated the front hook and the back hook with brass beads and proceeded to tie a Rabbit Strip Muddler. The fly reminded me of a Rattlesnake for two reasons, first the beads looked like a Rattlesnake tail and second while tying the fly the trailer hook would frequently bite me.


Hmmmm... looks like a Rattlesnake and bites like a Rattlesnake... 

 

The Rattlesnake was born!

 

FA1FD6BC-778E-4A21-ACCF-4A429A0FF0FB.jpeg.b1221cf86860e084ab7f1d5c02510558.jpeg


I was referring to the stinger hook only patterns I fish with no front hook.

They have a terrible hook-up ratio on headhunter species.

SF

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12 mins ago, Stonefish said:


I was referring to the stinger hook only patterns I fish with no front hook.

They have a terrible hook-up ratio on headhunter species.

SF

Ah, I missed that you were not talking tandem hooks. 

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I have not tried for snook, but I use intruder type flies for stripers a lot.  I fish them on a a spey or two hand overhead rod and swing them- it can be super effective.

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I don't think they'll be needed. If anything bigger is going to be better. Caught my second smallest snook ever on an 8" swimbait a few nights ago. 15" long. Throw bigger flies. 

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I think they definitely have their place. I don't trust my tying enough to trust the connection between the back hook and the front hook. In my head I see myself losing a fish and reeling in half a fly. 

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The connection is pretty simple. Tied one the other night. Good example of how to do it by a person named Brammer. Lots of instructional videos showing double hooked flies on the internet.

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Snook in the surf are tough to catch. This morning here in SW Florida I saw multiple Snook. Using an all white and a beige colored Schminow I had multiple follows but never hooked up. Maybe a larger articulated fly would have worked.

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This is how I tied the first double hook fly I've ever done, based on looking at a variety of flies being tied on the internet. I tied the rear fly first, then added a 5"-6" long piece of 20 to 30 pound test mono leader material knotted to that flies eye, threaded the mono through the center of a 1/4" +/- diameter plastic bead (Michael"s, etc.), then put the front hook in the vice, wrapped the shank, put the mono through that hooks eye, adjusted the momo so to the length I wanted, stuck the end of the mono down into the hook eye, bent it backwards towards the rear fly, coated all with head cement and wrapped everything onto the shank of the front fly with tying thread. Total length of the fly was just about 8".

Lots of internet videos showing how to do it.

I took the fly to the ocean other day. Sunny but clear and cold. Made several casts using a 9 weight, all telling me that the fly is heavy and will require changes to my casting stroke, the rod or line to make things work O.K.

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15 hours ago, dcobbett said:

This is how I tied the first double hook fly I've ever done, based on looking at a variety of flies being tied on the internet. I tied the rear fly first, then added a 5"-6" long piece of 20 to 30 pound test mono leader material knotted to that flies eye, threaded the mono through the center of a 1/4" +/- diameter plastic bead (Michael"s, etc.), then put the front hook in the vice, wrapped the shank, put the mono through that hooks eye, adjusted the momo so to the length I wanted, stuck the end of the mono down into the hook eye, bent it backwards towards the rear fly, coated all with head cement and wrapped everything onto the shank of the front fly with tying thread. Total length of the fly was just about 8".

Lots of internet videos showing how to do it.

I took the fly to the ocean other day. Sunny but clear and cold. Made several casts using a 9 weight, all telling me that the fly is heavy and will require changes to my casting stroke, the rod or line to make things work O.K.


If you use a loop rather then tying the mono onto the eye of the trailing hook, you can then change out the rear part of the fly should the hook get dinged.
It will increase the life of your flies. Just leave the loop long enough to get the rear hook through the loop.

 

You can also use Pacchiarini snaps for hooks if you want to easily change the tail section of articulated flies.

SF

 

 

Edited by Stonefish

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  for Snook along the beaches what worked best for me is no more than an 1 1/2 " presentation .Snook traveling the trough ( which can be inches from the beach sand )  is their mainstay of ambush for a meal  . If I were targeting Snook at dock lights those would surely attract the larger Snook waiting for the oppunitunity . I would choose size up or widen the profile more if Pinfish were around & less for Pilchard 

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On 3/7/2021 at 0:06 PM, flyangler said:

Would articulated flies offer any action/movement advantage for getting snook to bite in the surf?

I don't know snook or your methods but my main takeaway from most of Kelly's stuff is how aggressively they fish. 'Pounding the bank' with 30' casts to pressured fish and jerk strips from a drift boat couldn't be more different from my striper surf scenarios.  Wondering if theres an advantage to articulated flies on the swing or if they're designed for that constant active retrieve. 

 

 @RedGreen how did that giant deerhair articulated eel swim?  

 

 

Edited by Bait Tailer

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