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Skagit vs Scandi

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Great solid information about Scandi and Skagit in reference to the cast ability, rod to head ratios, grains and fly patterns profile, size and weight.

I would say the best for me on the Skagit heads, it’s tho “on-site customization” to optimize the fly control on any part of the water column depth is a plus on the surf for Skagits only vs the more limited Scandi systems.

Love both equally, but in my seasonal  spots along the NE coast, only one can do it all, the Skagit head, not only with long rods, but with any rod length we already own, specially with a 4” class  1 lever right under reel seat.


I’m sharing this clip, to show parts of a full season using this fly rod setup. and how versatile this systems are with only a 9’10#. I just put a conversion Switch kit on a LouTabory XX series and hit the surf for a entire season, nothing else, I must say, I snap the rod right few inches above the top handle grip with a 575g skagit short after a WBorne anchor on the second outing, be mindful on the grains, a 550 is what I’m using on the clip, today’s I have a 500g on a multi density head Skagit, with a 10’ of T-20 to target the lip on knarly conditions and those back bay gator blues on full size Bob’s banger in may.

The main difference between both heads systems it’s fly presentation, and fly presentation with the control over any of my the fly rigs and conditions, It can be a jig pattern or a tandem of half & half heavily dressed, popper dropper or a 12” beast.
You probably can do well with both in a continuous predictable steam flow current but, honestly I don’t know anything about freshwater fly fishing.

 

I encourage anyone before buy new TH or Switch to go for that dust collector fly rod, and put a Switch rod kit. It might be a pleasant surprise that can not only do good on the short term, specially on the wallet, but in exactly the same spots we use a TH or a Switch, you can’t now it until you try it...

I’ll be waiting for your thoughts on that new setup,  good luck Drew.

Hope it helps.

mag

Once again, please delete Tim if I’m against SOL rules posting my clips.

 

https://youtu.be/IL0YrgzE2dw

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Is it worth getting into two handed / switch casting? I have used SH my whole life and i hear good things about it but i have never tried it. I have been thinking of getting a switch rod but 11-12 foot rods seem a little excessive to me. It is hard to use TH rods? What are the pros and cons of TH vs SH?

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Must say I love the video, but I don't understand the use of the term "class one lever"

 

Adding a 4" rear grip to a 9ft heavy power (10wt)  single hand rod - I get that part.  If I understand it correctly, it turns your 9ft 10wt albright into a 9ft 4" 10wt switch rod.  That's a short, short rod.  Not really that different from a 10x10 rod that can be purchased for small $.  (Maybe the "shortstix" of switch rods???).

 

I think this might interest those folks who don't want to mess around with trying to create a franken-rod.  Douglas LRS 10x10.  I have no relationship to the company.

https://douglasoutdoors.com/product/lrs-f10102/

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Thanks a lot guys, appreciated.

 

Agree if you don’t have sentimental attachment to a fly rod setup. 

 

I should mention something very important on my previous post, I find out the hard way about tuning short blanks, I like killi called Franken-rod. Wonder if that’s the reason for manufacturers not to add this feature on short blanks...?

 

Let me explain please...

 

Rod tip in short blanks, travels closer to the caster, two hands are fixed now to the short blank, so we must be aware of that “blind spot”on winds at our back specially, and compensate either it’s a Spey/dynamic roll cast or a OH cast.

The way I compensate that “blind spot”

 

-OH CAST - Belgian or oval cast does it.

Just speed up the tempo on the back cast by mindfully focus of the bottom hand to build a solid smooth trust on the back cast and used accordingly to the actual wind speed at our back. I don’t drift with short blanks or slide line. I try to finish the back cast with enough tension on the line just before completely extend, I’m looking for a “J”shape on my back cast.

 

For a Spey /Dynamic roll cast the anchor placement it’s key for NOT to get hurt with the fly, usually it’s about rod length on  blanks from 10’ plus.

To compensate the anchor placement on the actual 9’ clip blank, I add my arm length either it’s air or waterborne anchor, again bottom hand it’s a great assistance here, I  really need to generate more speed on that D loop with strong winds from the back. 
Reverse C or Snap Tee to a P poke give me enough time to abort the cast if I anticipate the anchor inside the red line.

 

TH rod s-Lever class 1 it’s in the group of a force multiplier. 

SH rods - Lever class 3 it’s also part of another group, a speed multiplier.

 

Individuals with the right tendons, muscle and strength, can really practice for longer periods of time, and so develop some incredible technique and distance on single hand fly rods, I just don’t have it on rods over 6#, so my “Franken-rods” put me back in the water and now I can truly see the potential behind a good casting principle by only adding a 4”, now all my late 90s 8#_9# and #10 fly rods have those 3” to 4” right under the fulcrum, it really help my lack of strength over my dominant arm and pretty effortless I can move the resistance.

 

Short heads also help me tremendously, Skagit systems absolutely a blessing for my local spots and my soft strength.

 

Last night in the bay throwing OPST HEAD with a 10’ floating tip section, with something another local show me last season, but I never use it until last night, we both don’t know how to called, but it’s a variation of a sink popper dropper, did the cut with a Ray’s fly. I would never be able to cast this rig if it’s because of the lever class 1 you see in the picture 

 

I’m sure Killi knows the blank in the picture! 

 

thanks again 

mag

 

A144709A-EE78-40C8-AE47-EA7128C94A2C.jpeg

 

A clip link that can explain more about levers. Probably and more adult oriented can be found in the searcher, this clip explains about levers.

https://www.classhook.com/resources/2069-beakman-s-world-the-different-levers

77301E7E-E6BD-4BA7-8203-D35144787C89.jpeg

B400A19B-5C89-485E-BFB5-3099C911B090.jpeg

Edited by magayanes
Levers

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On 3/23/2021 at 4:28 PM, NavyFlies said:

Is it worth getting into two handed / switch casting? I have used SH my whole life and i hear good things about it but i have never tried it. I have been thinking of getting a switch rod but 11-12 foot rods seem a little excessive to me. It is hard to use TH rods? What are the pros and cons of TH vs SH?

Is it worth getting into two handed / switch casting? I have used SH my whole life and i hear good things about it but i have never tried it.o

 

To me, it was not only worth it, it was a game changer. I memorize the principles in my first SH casting class with a 5# fly rod, but my lack of strength on my dominant casting side just couldn’t take the wrong doing and the fatigue make it worse, nothing work once I pass a 6# fly rod or even when a distance casting was required on smaller weights, I always struggled every single time.

Having my extra hand under the reel seat fixed was tricky at first, but when you first find the sweet spot and balance the system, you definitely see the potential, and the learning curve it’s actually enjoyable, no doubt about it!!

 

-I have been thinking of getting a switch rod but 11-12 foot rods seem a little excessive to me. 

 

You better than anyone here  knows your local structure, bait and best way to do a fly presentation in your local spots.

My choice was mainly physical.

For others it’s sight casting or just long blind casting to only guess what the fly it’s doing 100’ from the rod tip.

Others like the close contact with the fly and prioritize not only having more time the fly in the water, but with full control by doing more hunting and less guessing. I believe in the last one, but love to cast far, just because I can now and I’m pretty sure I will when I’m 80.

 

-What are the pros and cons of TH vs SH?

 

TH /Switch-Longer lever  greater possibility to move farther distance heavy resistance fly patterns or tandem rigs.

All SH fly casting principles are the same to properly make a Switch and TH work, both share  exactly the same pros and cons , I always like to think how, 50 years ago in the ocean front those group of guys first cast a SH fly rod, how they did it with such a lack of high end materials we have now, perhaps ...respect the ocean. casting principles probably not much to read about it, work hard, build skills, endurance ,best generation ever,...God bless them all...!

 

-It is hard to use TH rods?

 

Not really, actually once we fully dominated the SH casting techniques like roll cast, mending, double haul, water haul...

the only drastic transition if you will , it’s that, ideally, we must keep the both hands fixed to the rod at all times moving in opposite direction, again, not different as doing a Double Haul with a SH, both hands move in opposite direction also, find your balance point, fail, use a smart phone to figure out why, later by looking at the principles try to spot the issue and repeat. 


Best of luck and thank you for your service!

 

Here it’s a clip that should give you a view of what can be done with a TH from the NJ jetties

https://youtu.be/kcvlc-LJBSo

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I can really see the advantage of a shorter TH rod when fishing from jetty or other elevated position.  One thing that bothers me is having to hand line the fish in over rocks, and where to place the rod when doing so, but this can even true with a 9ft single hand  fly rod for the most part.  Slippery rocks and crevices all over the place make it harder, not to mention rogue waves.  I fish mostly rivers and am still trying to get my saltwater TH fly game in shape.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

On 23/03/2021 at 8:28 PM, NavyFlies said:

Is it worth getting into two handed / switch casting? I have used SH my whole life and i hear good things about it but i have never tried it. I have been thinking of getting a switch rod but 11-12 foot rods seem a little excessive to me. It is hard to use TH rods? What are the pros and cons of TH vs SH?

Yes.
 

Why would you have a view on 11 and 12 foot rods if you have never done this before.

11 footers to many of us who ply the surf beaches are too short. Useful lengths start at 12 feet to 14 feet. My preferred length is 12’ 9”.

 

All Switch rods if  you are really serious about open front NE Coast USA fly casting are almost useless as a general purpose rod.

 

Others think differently and many of these guys have never cast in a wind or stood in surf past their knees. They work in back bays and estuaries. Not open high wind big seas in yer face.

 

It depends on your expectations. Some guys are happy to flop out a cast and often fish totally dead water as a consequence.

 

You can take any Rod you like when the Oggin is flat and the wind she don’t blow.

TH gear is great in calm but rules when it gets snotty and the beach does not see too many willing to fight it out. You can look your Spin Brothers in the eye and grin.

Have fun. Because that what this game is about plus the challenge laid down by the Ocean.

Thank you serving your country . I take my hat off to you.

 

cheers

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Oliver

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