MitchellNJ

Scope Stuff

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Posted (edited) · Report post

MOA? MRAD?

FFP? SFP?

 

It seems opinions are all over the place. Let's say for arguments sake that I'm staying below 20 max magnification. Does any of this actually matter?

 

Oh and the application would be hunting and it would be on top of a 30-06 bolt action rifle. That would seem like important information.

 

 

Edited by MitchellNJ

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More on the FFP/SFP thing. Does it make a difference so you're not fiddling around with crap before setting in to take a potential shot? Or does that happen regardless?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

depends on if you are using your scope to range.  FFP the reticle stays the same (increase proportionally); on the SFP you have to keep your scope on a particular power (usually 10X) for standardization.  MOA/MRAD doesn't really matter once you build your range card and learn how to use it.   MOA is a little bit finer adjustment than MRAD.  The whole thing is easier of you think metric and apply that math.  

Edited by JimP

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Get yourself a leupold 3-10x. 44 or 50mm diameter bell.  Send into leupold and have them set it up for CDS ballistic dials.  You'll be set to 500 yards.  

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Posted (edited) · Report post

As an old Soldier I am a firm believer in the KISS principal.  I use several of the Leupold 3.5-10x40mm VX-III riflescopes mounted as low as I can get them (as long as the eyepiece doesn't rub the bolt handle).  I zero my hunting scopes for a 2-1/2" high POI at 100 yards.  That gives me Point Blank range from 25 yards to about 300 yards (cartridge dependent +/- 20 yards) when hunting whitetail size game using an appropriate mid-range hunting load (243 WIN, 260 REM, 7mm-08, 270 WIN, 280 REM, 308 WIN, 30-06 SPRG, etc.)  I just aim for the heart out to 300 yards (MAX) and I don't have to perform any Kentucky Windage and estimate holdover, use various crosshairs or dots in the scope reticle, etc.  If the deer is way out there I will aim a bit higher, just behind the shoulder.  The less thinking you have to do the better, a deer may only give you a fleeting shot, they don't all stand broadside for minutes at time.  For distance get yourself a separate rangefinder, when you get settled in the stand pick out landmarks and range them - when a deer crosses you will know the max range - that's the beauty of a point blank zero, as long as you are within the max range you just point and shoot.  Good technique using the steady hold factors will get the job done.  Save the complex scope reticles for sniping and long range target shooting.  The best scope I have is the Leupold 2-12x42 VX-6 with an optional red-dot in the center of the crosshair (for assistance in low light) - that is as big (heavy) as I like to go on a hunting rifle.  Optics are more confusing nowadays than figuring out what cartridge to buy.  OH

Edited by Old Hunter

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7 hours ago, Old Hunter said:

As an old Soldier I am a firm believer in the KISS principal.  I use several of the Leupold 3.5-10x40mm VX-III riflescopes mounted as low as I can get them (as long as the eyepiece doesn't rub the bolt handle).  I zero my hunting scopes for a 2-1/2" high POI at 100 yards.  That gives me Point Blank range from 25 yards to about 300 yards (cartridge dependent +/- 20 yards) when hunting whitetail size game using an appropriate mid-range hunting load (243 WIN, 260 REM, 7mm-08, 270 WIN, 280 REM, 308 WIN, 30-06 SPRG, etc.)  I just aim for the heart out to 300 yards (MAX) and I don't have to perform any Kentucky Windage and estimate holdover, use various crosshairs or dots in the scope reticle, etc.  If the deer is way out there I will aim a bit higher, just behind the shoulder.  The less thinking you have to do the better, a deer may only give you a fleeting shot, they don't all stand broadside for minutes at time.  For distance get yourself a separate rangefinder, when you get settled in the stand pick out landmarks and range them - when a deer crosses you will know the max range - that's the beauty of a point blank zero, as long as you are within the max range you just point and shoot.  Good technique using the steady hold factors will get the job done.  Save the complex scope reticles for sniping and long range target shooting.  The best scope I have is the Leupold 2-12x42 VX-6 with an optional red-dot in the center of the crosshair (for assistance in low light) - that is as big (heavy) as I like to go on a hunting rifle.  Optics are more confusing nowadays than figuring out what cartridge to buy.  OH

 

Old soldiers, myself included, occasionally know sheet ^^^  I've watched (with great interest) the revolution in optics from the early 90's to around 2010.  IMHO, it's now about evolution by folks with far to much time on their hands, to many gun rags to read and GD start-up marketing dept's.  KISS theory is precisely right...honestly, have you looked at some of the gizmos lately?  You'll need a geography lesson to navigate the dots, hash marks, multiple reticle options AND a Thesaurus to explain user terms in the instructions.

 

FWIW, I won't subscribe to the Optics price should equal or exceed the firearm price.  Those days are long gone and I'm grateful.  Give me a 1x6 in the very best glass my wallet can cry over and I'm content to 300yds.

 

We differ on brand but your point is well made.

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23 hours ago, Old Hunter said:

As an old Soldier I am a firm believer in the KISS principal.  I use several of the Leupold 3.5-10x40mm VX-III riflescopes mounted as low as I can get them (as long as the eyepiece doesn't rub the bolt handle).  I zero my hunting scopes for a 2-1/2" high POI at 100 yards.  That gives me Point Blank range from 25 yards to about 300 yards (cartridge dependent +/- 20 yards) when hunting whitetail size game using an appropriate mid-range hunting load (243 WIN, 260 REM, 7mm-08, 270 WIN, 280 REM, 308 WIN, 30-06 SPRG, etc.)  I just aim for the heart out to 300 yards (MAX) and I don't have to perform any Kentucky Windage and estimate holdover, use various crosshairs or dots in the scope reticle, etc.  If the deer is way out there I will aim a bit higher, just behind the shoulder.  The less thinking you have to do the better, a deer may only give you a fleeting shot, they don't all stand broadside for minutes at time.  For distance get yourself a separate rangefinder, when you get settled in the stand pick out landmarks and range them - when a deer crosses you will know the max range - that's the beauty of a point blank zero, as long as you are within the max range you just point and shoot.  Good technique using the steady hold factors will get the job done.  Save the complex scope reticles for sniping and long range target shooting.  The best scope I have is the Leupold 2-12x42 VX-6 with an optional red-dot in the center of the crosshair (for assistance in low light) - that is as big (heavy) as I like to go on a hunting rifle.  Optics are more confusing nowadays than figuring out what cartridge to buy.  OH

Not a rifle Hunter but did just that with a 7mm-08 bolt gun I got last year.  Sighted in 1 1/2" high at 100. 3" low at 300. Worked for me last fall when a 450lb cow elk stepped out at 180 yards.  

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I have a, hopefully, more clarified question.

 

I'm looking at two scopes. One is twice the cost of the other. Is this a buy once cry once thing or do you step up through levels of scopes as your experience and aptitude progresses?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

On 2/18/2021 at 9:57 PM, JimP said:

depends on if you are using your scope to range.  FFP the reticle stays the same (increase proportionally); on the SFP you have to keep your scope on a particular power (usually 10X) for standardization.  MOA/MRAD doesn't really matter once you build your range card and learn how to use it.   MOA is a little bit finer adjustment than MRAD.  The whole thing is easier of you think metric and apply that math.  

 

On 2/19/2021 at 7:46 AM, LBI SurfRat said:

Get yourself a leupold 3-10x. 44 or 50mm diameter bell.  Send into leupold and have them set it up for CDS ballistic dials.  You'll be set to 500 yards.  

 

On 2/19/2021 at 8:22 AM, Old Hunter said:

As an old Soldier I am a firm believer in the KISS principal.  I use several of the Leupold 3.5-10x40mm VX-III riflescopes mounted as low as I can get them (as long as the eyepiece doesn't rub the bolt handle).  I zero my hunting scopes for a 2-1/2" high POI at 100 yards.  That gives me Point Blank range from 25 yards to about 300 yards (cartridge dependent +/- 20 yards) when hunting whitetail size game using an appropriate mid-range hunting load (243 WIN, 260 REM, 7mm-08, 270 WIN, 280 REM, 308 WIN, 30-06 SPRG, etc.)  I just aim for the heart out to 300 yards (MAX) and I don't have to perform any Kentucky Windage and estimate holdover, use various crosshairs or dots in the scope reticle, etc.  If the deer is way out there I will aim a bit higher, just behind the shoulder.  The less thinking you have to do the better, a deer may only give you a fleeting shot, they don't all stand broadside for minutes at time.  For distance get yourself a separate rangefinder, when you get settled in the stand pick out landmarks and range them - when a deer crosses you will know the max range - that's the beauty of a point blank zero, as long as you are within the max range you just point and shoot.  Good technique using the steady hold factors will get the job done.  Save the complex scope reticles for sniping and long range target shooting.  The best scope I have is the Leupold 2-12x42 VX-6 with an optional red-dot in the center of the crosshair (for assistance in low light) - that is as big (heavy) as I like to go on a hunting rifle.  Optics are more confusing nowadays than figuring out what cartridge to buy.  OH

 

On 2/19/2021 at 4:32 PM, mako20ft said:

 

Old soldiers, myself included, occasionally know sheet ^^^  I've watched (with great interest) the revolution in optics from the early 90's to around 2010.  IMHO, it's now about evolution by folks with far to much time on their hands, to many gun rags to read and GD start-up marketing dept's.  KISS theory is precisely right...honestly, have you looked at some of the gizmos lately?  You'll need a geography lesson to navigate the dots, hash marks, multiple reticle options AND a Thesaurus to explain user terms in the instructions.

 

FWIW, I won't subscribe to the Optics price should equal or exceed the firearm price.  Those days are long gone and I'm grateful.  Give me a 1x6 in the very best glass my wallet can cry over and I'm content to 300yds.

 

We differ on brand but your point is well made.

Everybody above is different, but correct.  I myself prefer high quality, lower magnification, lower profile.  In PA, my shots are short, so I have lower variable Leupolds like 1.75x6, 2x7 compact, 2.5x8. I also like fixed scopes, like straight tube 2.5X and 2.75X, or a low profile 4X.  Here in PA, everyone has a 30-30 lever rifle or a .30-06 pump Remington Gamemaster with a fixed 2.5 or 4X scope.

Go to Maine, they will call your bolt rifle a “tire changah” and your scope a “snow catchah”

 

It’s necessity, personal preference, and also regional.

 

Personally, I’d go with the better scope. I’ve sold and traded things and kept the optics for other projects.  Say you have a lever action .30-30 with a Leupold 4X, but decide you want a little more rifle… sell or trade the rifle, keep the optics. That scope fits nicely on a bolt .308, a pump .30-06, Jack O’Connor didn’t seem to have any trouble with a 4X on a .270, etc.. make sense?

1 hour ago, MitchellNJ said:

I have a, hopefully, more clarified question.

 

I'm looking at two scopes. One is twice the cost of the other. Is this a buy once cry once thing or do you step up through levels of scopes as your experience and aptitude progresses?

Edited by D1fishr

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Since we’re on the subject of Leupold and being an old soldier, I just wanted to mention that they have a VIP program for Vets, Active Military, LE, and government employees to buy direct from them at a pretty good discount in case you weren’t aware. 
https://www.leupold.com/learn/core-communities/vip-programs-info

Edited by NonTypical

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On 2/19/2021 at 8:22 AM, Old Hunter said:

As an old Soldier I am a firm believer in the KISS principal.  I use several of the Leupold 3.5-10x40mm VX-III riflescopes mounted as low as I can get them (as long as the eyepiece doesn't rub the bolt handle).  I zero my hunting scopes for a 2-1/2" high POI at 100 yards.  That gives me Point Blank range from 25 yards to about 300 yards (cartridge dependent +/- 20 yards) when hunting whitetail size game using an appropriate mid-range hunting load (243 WIN, 260 REM, 7mm-08, 270 WIN, 280 REM, 308 WIN, 30-06 SPRG, etc.)  I just aim for the heart out to 300 yards (MAX) and I don't have to perform any Kentucky Windage and estimate holdover, use various crosshairs or dots in the scope reticle, etc.  If the deer is way out there I will aim a bit higher, just behind the shoulder.  The less thinking you have to do the better, a deer may only give you a fleeting shot, they don't all stand broadside for minutes at time.  For distance get yourself a separate rangefinder, when you get settled in the stand pick out landmarks and range them - when a deer crosses you will know the max range - that's the beauty of a point blank zero, as long as you are within the max range you just point and shoot.  Good technique using the steady hold factors will get the job done.  Save the complex scope reticles for sniping and long range target shooting.  The best scope I have is the Leupold 2-12x42 VX-6 with an optional red-dot in the center of the crosshair (for assistance in low light) - that is as big (heavy) as I like to go on a hunting rifle.  Optics are more confusing nowadays than figuring out what cartridge to buy.  OH

You posted 30-06 bolt rifle for hunting, whitetails and hogs in the east or long range hunting out west .If eastern hunting, this is spot on!  All 3 of my 06's are sighted in the same way...nothing to think about when the shot presents itself.

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More scope related ramblings

 

Weaver Mount?

Dovetail mount?

Picatinny rail?

 

Some rings are $30 while others are $250 :huh:

 

Low. Medium, High, Extra High.. What?

 

Why does this stuff need to be so complicated?

 

Leaning towards the traditional Weaver mount because I have sausage fingers and the Picatinny may be too close to the bolt to make loading a bit easier. No idea how you make a choice on height.

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15 mins ago, MitchellNJ said:

No idea how you make a choice on height.

 

I like the lowest rings that will work. You're going to need to try a couple different heights unless you can find info from someone who already has mounted your rifle/scope/base combo. If your scope has a large objective lens, low or even medium rings may not clear the barrel.

 

As to the different mounts dovetail style is theoretically stronger, and can be removed & replaced without a big change in zero. Once mounted I've never removed a scope unless it had an issue though.  :why:  I've got Weaver mounts on my shotgun and dovetail on my .308, both work fine.  

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27 mins ago, Eagles Dare said:

 

I like the lowest rings that will work. You're going to need to try a couple different heights unless you can find info from someone who already has mounted your rifle/scope/base combo. If your scope has a large objective lens, low or even medium rings may not clear the barrel.

 

As to the different mounts dovetail style is theoretically stronger, and can be removed & replaced without a big change in zero. Once mounted I've never removed a scope unless it had an issue though.  :why:  I've got Weaver mounts on my shotgun and dovetail on my .308, both work fine.  

Scope and mounts are ordered. Just need the rings. There seems to be some general guidelines regarding objective size. Might need high rings for the 44mm. Will need to see when it gets here.

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