Inshore

NEW 2021 Shimano TwinPower SW

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63 posts in this topic

On 14/6/2021 at 11:06 PM, Jig It said:

I have extra shims, but the hump is both at top and bottom, not sure if it is to remove or add,  it can probably make one better and other worse. Also not sure if it will fix hour glass shape...

ok...and how many shims do you have left to put? try to put the maximum number of them!.

These medium sizes 8000-14k work with pe4-5-6 for 300m...pe3 is something in the limit (rather it is for 6k)...New saragosa has a more aggressive criss-cross pattern, less line digging than stella!.

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On 6/18/2021 at 3:06 PM, canary said:

ok...and how many shims do you have left to put? try to put the maximum number of them!.

These medium sizes 8000-14k work with pe4-5-6 for 300m...pe3 is something in the limit (rather it is for 6k)...New saragosa has a more aggressive criss-cross pattern, less line digging than stella!.

According to specs posted on page 1 of this topic, for 8000 it is PE 3, 4 and 5, all within spec. Shims wise reel is perfectly centered. 

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On 6/18/2021 at 3:06 PM, canary said:

..New saragosa has a more aggressive criss-cross pattern, less line digging than stella!.

New saragosa looks like a very good bang for the bucks! The trickle down technology from higher end models is a very nice move by Shimano and it does make it cost effective model. The selection to go for twin power or possibility to have two saragosa will have the be made. From all my research including browsing japanese sites, using Google translate, the durability of twin power and rigid support drag will not be matched by saragosa when comparing the heavy duty aspect of the drag system. Of course some may never max it out, but if you're fishing in strong currents the stronger the better.

 

As far as the line lay I posted about earlier, it does appear like the feature of twin power 8000, there has been no negative feedback and lots of blogs and reviews online that have same line lay shape. I also got in contact with someone with previous year tp 8000 and they have same line lay and shape been using it for 2 years with no issues to report. Performance wise I'm very impressed with the reel and put good 8 hours on it already. 

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On 6/24/2021 at 6:25 PM, Jig It said:

New saragosa looks like a very good bang for the bucks! The trickle down technology from higher end models is a very nice move by Shimano and it does make it cost effective model. The selection to go for twin power or possibility to have two saragosa will have the be made. From all my research including browsing japanese sites, using Google translate, the durability of twin power and rigid support drag will not be matched by saragosa when comparing the heavy duty aspect of the drag system. Of course some may never max it out, but if you're fishing in strong currents the stronger the better.

 

As far as the line lay I posted about earlier, it does appear like the feature of twin power 8000, there has been no negative feedback and lots of blogs and reviews online that have same line lay shape. I also got in contact with someone with previous year tp 8000 and they have same line lay and shape been using it for 2 years with no issues to report. Performance wise I'm very impressed with the reel and put good 8 hours on it already. 

How’s it been? Update? Hourglass line lay is probably not an issue unless you’re getting “wind” knots. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I still find it really hard to understand a reel that expensive and with worm gear style oscillation line lay would give an hourglass shape. (Cross wind block - “locomotion” style line management systems are usually associated with an hourglass.)
 

Most likely- the internal tech is from last gen or even current gen Stella. There’s no way a Stella would be allowed to have anything less than perfect line management. 

Edited by EricDice

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4 hours ago, EricDice said:

How’s it been? Update? Hourglass line lay is probably not an issue unless you’re getting “wind” knots. 

Reel has been working great. Very satisfied and impressed with it. No wind knots.

Put a decent number fish on it, but nothing big yet, I like how quickly drag kicks in with no lag. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

FWIW

 

I just spooled up a new 4000 and it took the same amount of Sufix 832 20# as all my C5000 Shimanos took, ~270 yards… The line lay on this one is perfect.

 

Another fun fact, all my C5000 spools fit, (Stella FJ, Vanquish FB, TwinPower FD and Stradic FL) same exact O.D. and stroke length. I guess I have a few spare spools if needed… LOL!

 

So it appears I now have a quasi- “sealed up” C5000…

 

What a concept Shimano!

Edited by Inshore

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6 hours ago, Inshore said:

FWIW

 

I just spooled up a new 4000 and it took the same amount of Sufix 832 20# as all my C5000 Shimanos took, ~270 yards… The line lay on this one is perfect.

 

Another fun fact, all my C5000 spools fit, (Stella FJ, Vanquish FB, TwinPower FD and Stradic FL) same exact O.D. and stroke length. I guess I have a few spare spools if needed… LOL!

 

So it appears I now have a quasi- “sealed up” C5000…

 

What a concept Shimano!

Wow! Thanks Inshore!

 

I just looked at the schematic and pretty sure that means the newest sustain, stradic, Ultegra, and the latest “FW” Stella could all get an upgrade. 
 

The below rotor / above the AR seal – that “labyrinth seal” – is the same in all those reels. And according to your finding, the spools are the same design so I would expect the rotor tolerances most likely to be the same too. 
 

Therefore, probably would let us swap out that AR seal.


(There may be an under the rotor O ring missing versus the TP but that’s not revealed in the schematic. And the body would still not have a gasket - though I’ve very effectively sealed the body of many reels with sticky grease. But overall, I bet the AR seal could be significantly upgraded.)
 

 

 

E320A600-57BF-4263-923C-1DC32DDC25A7.jpeg

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Looks like about $25-$30 in parts and that makes it unlikely for me. Just get a Saragosa - which is what I did after dunk testing my Stradic FL.

 

 (Unless you’re married to worm gear oscillation.)

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10 hours ago, EricDice said:

I just looked at the schematic and pretty sure that means the newest sustain, stradic, Ultegra, and the latest “FW” Stella could all get an upgrade. 
 

The below rotor / above the AR seal – that “labyrinth seal” – is the same in all those reels. And according to your finding, the spools are the same design so I would expect the rotor tolerances most likely to be the same too. 
 

Therefore, probably would let us swap out that AR seal.


(There may be an under the rotor O ring missing versus the TP but that’s not revealed in the schematic. And the body would still not have a gasket - though I’ve very effectively sealed the body of many reels with sticky grease. But overall, I bet the AR seal could be significantly upgraded.)


I highly doubt that upgrade will happen.
 

The overall body size on the SW4000/5000/6000 is noticeably larger than the largest “FW” reels being 4000/C5000. It appears this is to allow for larger gears, larger AR, larger dual drag stack spools (5&6k) and all the sealing measures. You can really see the difference by a comparison of the TwinPower FD 4000/C5000 and TwinPower SW 4000 drawings.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

10 hours ago, EricDice said:

Looks like about $25-$30 in parts and that makes it unlikely for me. Just get a Saragosa - which is what I did after dunk testing my Stradic FL.

 

 (Unless you’re married to worm gear oscillation.)


It’s more than $30 in parts, everything about the SW is larger…

 

Gosa will not work for me for the same reason my TP SW5000 will not work. It would/does generate too much “line thud” against the collector guide on my primary surf stick as the line roller bottoms out during its rotation due to the larger spool/rotor size… This is why I went with the 4000/C5000 spool and rotor on the quasi-sealed reel. This reel is replacing a Stella C5000 that I recently killed in some fun surf conditions… And that reel did not generate the “line thud”.

So we will see…

Edited by Inshore

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11 mins ago, Inshore said:


It’s more than $30 in parts, everything about the SW is larger…

 

Gosa will not work for me for the same reason my TP SW5000 will not work. It would/does generate too much “line thud” against the collector guide on my primary surf stick as the line roller bottoms out during its rotation due to the larger spool/rotor size… This is why I went with the 4000/C5000 spool and rotor on the quasi-sealed reel. This reel is replacing a Stella C5000 that I recently killed in some fun surf conditions… And that reel did not generate the “line thud”.

So we will see…

Interesting. I personally am only going to get one more Shimano. I want to check out the Nasci FC. Otherwise, time to test the waters elsewhere when the need arises. 

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16 hours ago, EricDice said:

Looks like about $25-$30 in parts and that makes it unlikely for me. Just get a Saragosa - which is what I did after dunk testing my Stradic FL.

 

 (Unless you’re married to worm gear oscillation.)

Gosa seem like a good bang for the buck I mentioned before but is plastic rotor vs aluminum in TP. From Alan Hawk review "To the best that I could tell it's due to the plastic rotor of the Saragosa SW-A having a hint of momentary flex at higher settings, which absorbs the pull and delays the drag's response by a split second or two."

 

I also read on some forums that gosa drag can be maxed out easier then TP as in being weaker. Now, if you're not using it for tuna or similar, why would you care. At the end of the day it is buying best you can afford and enjoy it.

 

from ocean blue review of TP with same what marketing hints:

 

"

  • Additional rigidity comes with having an aluminum rotor. 

This aluminum rotor eliminates rotor flex and improves rotational torque and power transfer, resulting in efficient reel performance. With the extra rigidity in place, anglers are guaranteed a no-mushy-feel even when the reel is under heavy pressure."

And 

"Rigid Support Drag is present, which means that the drag stack is supported at both ends of the main shaft with bearings. This rigid support prevents unnecessary stress on one point of the spool shaft, allowing even distribution of pressure from the bottom to the top of the spool. For anglers, this support translates to stable line release when the line is being pulled."

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

On 11/25/2021 at 6:52 PM, NJS said:

TP has 20grams shaved off compared to Saragosa in 6000 size.

I think some (most) of that added weight is in that big rubber egg knob that’s used on the Gosa. A good example of this is comparing the Gosa 6k to the Stradic SW 6k. The Stradic is 15g lighter and these two reels are basically the same, less the dual drag stack on the Stradic, but it uses the same Ci4 knob (different color) that’s on the TP…

Edited by Inshore

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