Leefish49

Braid splicing Knots

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Wondering how everyone splices braid?

UNI to UNI most common but the weakest and slips with smooth braid 

Bimni to cats paw to bimni long knot

Fg or albright to mono and then another fg or albright

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Threaded thru hollow core braid finished with a MINUTE film of gorilla glue no knots ... I believe you can find it on you tube.....you maybe able to use a simple tapestry needle from the five and dime store

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57 mins ago, Leefish49 said:

Wondering how everyone splices braid?

UNI to UNI most common but the weakest and slips with smooth braid 

Bimni to cats paw to bimni long knot

Fg or albright to mono and then another fg or albright

The this with slippery braid is that you need to finish the knot with a couple of overhand knots.  PP SS is like Teflon and need reinforcement 

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Uni to Uni is plenty strong, but it sounds like you need more wraps (6 or 7 wraps for 50# and above, 8 to 10 wraps for 20-40#, 10-12 wraps for 15# and below) and be careful the loops come tight in the correct order. They like to jump over each other with stiffer coated braid. Also if you twist the two lines while you wrap them, and the sizes are very different (like joining 20# backing onto 50# braid) the thinner line can get sucked into the wraps of the heavy braid and ends up sawing itself off.

 

If I am using a backing braid and a casting braid together, or attaching a fly backing to a braided shooting line, it's all I ever use and it works fine. Just be sure to test it with some gloves or tensioning rods to make sure it won't slip with the given drag pressure you have on the reel.

 

What exactly are you trying to do? Similar to what I mentioned above?

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10 mins ago, Sir Defyable said:

Uni to Uni is plenty strong, but it sounds like you need more wraps (6 or 7 wraps for 50# and above, 8 to 10 wraps for 20-40#, 10-12 wraps for 15# and below) and be careful the loops come tight in the correct order. They like to jump over each other with stiffer coated braid. Also if you twist the two lines while you wrap them, and the sizes are very different (like joining 20# backing onto 50# braid) the thinner line can get sucked into the wraps of the heavy braid and ends up sawing itself off.

 

If I am using a backing braid and a casting braid together, or attaching a fly backing to a braided shooting line, it's all I ever use and it works fine. Just be sure to test it with some gloves or tensioning rods to make sure it won't slip with the given drag pressure you have on the reel.

 

What exactly are you trying to do? Similar to what I mentioned above?

Agree with this. Never had the Uni-Uni slip with 10 turns (20-50 braid).

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9 mins ago, HKJonathan said:

Agree with this. Never had the Uni-Uni slip with 10 turns (20-50 braid).

 

20 mins ago, Sir Defyable said:

Uni to Uni is plenty strong, but it sounds like you need more wraps (6 or 7 wraps for 50# and above, 8 to 10 wraps for 20-40#, 10-12 wraps for 15# and below) and be careful the loops come tight in the correct order. They like to jump over each other with stiffer coated braid. Also if you twist the two lines while you wrap them, and the sizes are very different (like joining 20# backing onto 50# braid) the thinner line can get sucked into the wraps of the heavy braid and ends up sawing itself off.

 

If I am using a backing braid and a casting braid together, or attaching a fly backing to a braided shooting line, it's all I ever use and it works fine. Just be sure to test it with some gloves or tensioning rods to make sure it won't slip with the given drag pressure you have on the reel.

 

What exactly are you trying to do? Similar to what I mentioned above?

 i've been doing a lot of knot testing with 50lb braids PP, PPSS, brkly pro spec, tufline.

i know im not going to get 100% line strength but im aiming for 80-85% (40lb) the most ive been able to get is 37.5 lb out of the unit to uni

ive tried many amount of wraps and so far for 50 ive found 6-8 with 4 stand braids and 8-10 with 8 strand braid to be the best. 

also wetting a knot does help 

 

 

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Braid to braid with any knot you choose will be more effective if you place the line between thumb nail and index finger nail and pull through taking off the coating that comes on  braids. The first guy I saw do this was Crazy Al in one of his knot videos. It works!

Marc

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2 hours ago, Leefish49 said:

 

 i've been doing a lot of knot testing with 50lb braids PP, PPSS, brkly pro spec, tufline.

i know im not going to get 100% line strength but im aiming for 80-85% (40lb) the most ive been able to get is 37.5 lb out of the unit to uni

ive tried many amount of wraps and so far for 50 ive found 6-8 with 4 stand braids and 8-10 with 8 strand braid to be the best. 

also wetting a knot does help 

 

 

That's sounds about right- the double uni is pretty high for ABS % but I have no idea what the "normal" would be on braided line. Either way I would take 40lb breaking strength all day everyday! Safe to say nobody runs 40lb drag except maybe Bob the Garbageman. Maybe the guys who go magnet fishing and pull boat hulls off the bottom.

 

Hopefully I can make you feel better about your expectations by pointing out that 100% Absolute Breaking Strength on any of the brands you listed in a 50# rating would be 60-70# on average (see Aquaholik's thread if you haven't already) and as high as 80+ lb for some lines in that category.

So a 37.5lb breaking strength is much closer to 50% suggesting that a uni to uni is simply not as good braid to braid as compared to braid to leader. If this holds true for all knots, FG included (makes sense since the line can't grip the braid like it would grip mono), you won't find any hand-tied knots with an ABS in the 80-85% range, period. These knots just don't exist, even your best FGs on braid to mono are 85-90% and the best uni-uni knots are around 75-80%. This is with all the best combination of brands and perfectly tied knots. 

 

Your average triple/quadruple surgeon loop will be a tick above 50% and still give you over 30lb breaking strength. Doesn't have to be fancy to hold well above the drag rating.

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The short answer is to do a uni to uni. PPSS especially cinches tight and eats through itself or the other braid the way it cuts through your skin if you ever made that mistake. 
 

So, make an open loop (no knot) with each line & tie the uni knot with doubled over line around the doubled line of the adjoining braid then do the same with the other uni. You’ll have 4 tag ends to trim. It take a little practice but it’s still easy enough. 

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The longer answer:
 

I have tried & used almost all methods but the hollow core one. The one that I’m playing with now is splicing solid braid to solid braid using a needle. That  requires stitching one line through the strands of the other one about 8-12 times. Then there’s one tiny knot & dab of glue at each end which means the middle-the stitched section-is still as flexible as regular braid. It has the potential for practical use for connecting a heavy braided line to thin main line for shock leader like use where the knot flies through the guides unimpeded. That method feels promising but is TBD in my mind. 
 

If you have time and have a PR bobbin or even a fly tying bobbin, a PR knot should retain the highest % of breaking strength. But that’s not what I use most of the time. That braid to braid PR needs to be done meticulously - @aqua-holic could weigh in there. The same method using a bobbin can also produce a 90% plus bimini whereas hand tied biminis to hand tied bimini is often not much stronger than a uni to uni. (Not worth the time it takes.)
 

The downside of the braid to braid PR is it’s a long relatively stiff section of your main line that you don’t want flying through your guides unless you have a gigantic stripper/collector guide maybe on a long surf rod. I have done a few of those knots but it’s not very practical because it needs to be buried in the spool due to the length & stiffness. If that’s the case-buried in the spool-then there’s no harm in using a uni to uni that likely won’t see the light of day.
 

I could imagine a practical use for that knot if you’re using a huge offshore reel for pelagic fish or maybe a huge surf reel for shore based sharking. In other words, if you could get into your “backing braid” with the drag set heavy enough to potentially exceed the uni to uni of two light or intermediate braided lines, then that PR could be the juice that’s worth the squeeze. 
 

If you have too much time to spend on this, then you’ll end up overthinking it like I admit that I do already!

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1 hour ago, Sir Defyable said:

makes sense since the line can't grip the braid like it would grip mono

Sir,

Braid to braid FG does work as long as there is a difference in dia.

It is common practice here in SA for braid shock leaders.

Makes for a tiny knot that has no issue going through guides, way stronger than back to back uni

 

 

 

Edited by ZAFisher

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14 mins ago, EricDice said:

That  requires stitching one line through the strands of the other one about 8-12 times

Works well, Aquaholic tested it (there's a video he did when I asked him to test the Saffa Stitch)

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11 mins ago, ZAFisher said:

Sir,

Braid to braid FG does work as long as there is a difference in dia.

It is common practice here in SA for braid shock leaders.

Makes for a tiny knot that has no issue going through guides, way stronger than back to back uni

Very much in agreement, sorry if I didn't explain what I meant very clearly- If the uni-uni drops by ~20% when going braid to braid, I assume the best FG will also drop in it's strength using braid to braid connections. Relative to a braid-mono or braid-fluoro connection. I didn't mean to imply it couldn't be done, but I am making an assumption that the FG would be weaker based on the difference in surface area to grip to (when using braid to braid), which in theory could be made up for with extra wraps on the FG. I certainly don't have much experience with FG knots in braid but I do know it can be done. I appreciate you giving some practical examples of its use I might have to consider trying it with a (braided) shooting line on a fly reel.

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