doublegregg

how important is body rotation in surf casting

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got back into fishing last september, surf casting. i got an okuma 9' rockaway rod, penn battle ii reel, 20# braid. never 'surf casted' before. have watched videos on surf casting - but my casting is staying at about 30 yard with maybe an ounce lure, ounce and a half, up to two ounces (the max for this rod)  so now i'm practicing with a tennis ball (2 oz) and cast about 30 to 35 yards.

i've been watching john holden videos, in which he demos the pendulum cast. i've tried that cast, i guess i need to practice that a LOT more? i notice that my normal surf cast is with the ball str8 back, and my arms extend str8 in front of me. so, not a pendulum cast... there's some body rotation, but holden seems to have quite a bit of rotation. his rod almost looks side arm when he casts. i think mine is str8 over the top, basically.

would appreciate suggestions.

is this what i'm aiming for? not sure if tournament casting translates directly to surf casting, but i assume the principles are the same...

 

 

Edited by doublegregg

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i'll try this easy cast......... at the start of this video, holden shows what not to do. that's probably exactly what i'm doing now! maybe i'll get the pendulum one day..... i'm hoping the easy cast might be a way to work into the pendulum...

 

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Easycast 1st and then progress to OTG by adding some rotation.

The Euro Carp crowd's technique with arms straight up above your head is useful too.

Weight transfer is a big deal - think about pitching a baseball..

Try to not push with your right hand (you will do it anyway) and work on pulling with the left.

 

 

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You can only get x amount out of a certain surf rod setup and that's if your form is perfect...then you may need to increase weight , length of rod,quality of rod and type of lure your throwing...or be satisfied with what your able to cast

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Casting technique is numero uno, if maximum distance is the goal.  For the most part, an OTG or Hatteras single swing pendulum cast can be well accomplished inline and more overhead than side swing, with feet inline and at 90* to the shoreline.  Finishing that cast with a side step can really apply push-pull power to the handle.  A true pendulum is a double swing different footwork and the goal is to unwind from the feet up.  A classic fishing cast with a Hatteras side step finish, Tommy Farmer ...

 

 

 

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Same as throwing a baseball, or hitting a golf ball

If it's all arm there's no power

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i have no trouble hitting a baseball --- never had much power... i was probably mostly arm. i think my coordination of the whole stroke was always kind of off just enough.

 

anyway, working on the casting. a 2 oz tennis ball, and i regularly cast it about 30 yards... seems pretty awful?  i'm sure my coordination of the arms and lower body are off. 2 oz is the upper limit of my rod. i do notice my braid sometimes totally billows out, like a huge loop. i'd guess i'm not propelling the ball out. maybe too much loft..?

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7 hours ago, doublegregg said:

 

 

anyway, working on the casting. a 2 oz tennis ball, and i regularly cast it about 30 yards... seems pretty awful?  i'm sure my coordination of the arms and lower body are off. 2 oz is the upper limit of my rod. i do notice my braid sometimes totally billows out, like a huge loop. i'd guess i'm not propelling the ball out. maybe too much loft..?

I used to cast weighted tennis balls, it’s ok, but they catch too much air. These weighted craft balls fly much further, but they to max out around 100 yds. Real plugs sans their hooks will give the best indication of real world distance. Lean a phone on something, video your session, it’s a great tool to analyze your cast.

2500EDA6-EF20-47CB-9288-7BB0182D0307.jpeg

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Longest distance casting with revolver or spinner absolutely requires applying the entire body, starting from the ground up with footwork, then the torquing of the torso, then the unwinding of the EXTENDED arms for the push out of the reel hand and the snappy pull in of the butt hand. 

 

The target will always be the sky, at around 45* up, and never the water or even the horizon. 

 

OTG is a good starting point, but the swing out Hatteras was better for me.  There is little to no timing for an OTG, but any manner of swing payload pendulum will require mastering timing. 

 

No matter whether OTG or swinging weight, it starts off sorta slow and deliberate and when the Extended reel hand is throwing the rod like a javelin is when the butt hand snaps back and applies the butt power as the torso unwinds and the reel hand shoulder punches forward whilst the body squares away to the water.  This is when the real power takes over.  Yeah, there's a lot happening in a few seconds and it will take concentrated practice, but if yer only now throwing 30 to 50 yards, that will have the ability to double at the least as long as the rod, the payload, the line, and the reel are proper and well set up. 

 

Yesterday I set up a cheap $69 CatfishPro 600 casting reel by fully removing its level wind, adding a mono mag, cleaning and lubing the spool bearings, loaded it with 18# Sakuma mono, added a 60# mono shock leader, attached a 125 gram sinker, put the reel on a cheap $64 12' Fiblink Saphire graphite rod and the first Hatteras cast went a short 81 lasered yards.  Then I dropped the mag 50% and hit 97 yards.  Adding some concentrated power for a few more casts and the longest went 123 yards.  It's about tackle setup, but technique is really where it's at for long distance casting ... just ask any tournament grass caster.  :)

 

 

Edited by BeachBob

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1 hour ago, cheech said:

I used to cast weighted tennis balls, it’s ok, but they catch too much air. These weighted craft balls fly much further, but they to max out around 100 yds. Real plugs sans their hooks will give the best indication of real world distance. Lean a phone on something, video your session, it’s a great tool to analyze your cast.

2500EDA6-EF20-47CB-9288-7BB0182D0307.jpeg

ty... i'll try a video. that should help. i don't mind the tennis balls catching too much air --- unless it's self defeating. i live in the bay area, and it's really hard finding a safe place to cast on land. since i only cast 30 yards, i have a grassy area i can practice in. also --- much safer tennis ball out into the air than something hard....! all school fields are locked due to covid.

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1 hour ago, BeachBob said:

Longest distance casting with revolver or spinner absolutely requires applying the entire body, starting from the ground up with footwork, then the torquing of the torso, then the unwinding of the EXTENDED arms for the push out of the reel hand and the snappy pull in of the butt hand. 

 

The target will always be the sky, at around 45* up, and never the water or even the horizon. 

 

OTG is a good starting point, but the swing out Hatteras was better for me.  There is little to no timing for an OTG, but any manner of swing payload pendulum will require mastering timing. 

 

No matter whether OTG or swinging weight, it starts off sorta slow and deliberate and when the Extended reel hand is throwing the rod like a javelin is when the butt hand snaps back and applies the butt power as the torso unwinds and the reel hand shoulder punches forward whilst the body squares away to the water.  This is when the real power takes over.  Yeah, there's a lot happening in a few seconds and it will take concentrated practice, but if yer only now throwing 30 to 50 yards, that will have the ability to double at the least as long as the rod, the payload, the line, and the reel are proper and well set up. 

 

Yesterday I set up a cheap $69 CatfishPro 600 casting reel by fully removing its level wind, adding a mono mag, cleaning and lubing the spool bearings, loaded it with 18# Sakuma mono, added a 60# mono shock leader, attached a 125 gram sinker, put the reel on a cheap $64 12' Fiblink Saphire graphite rod and the first Hatteras cast went a short 81 lasered yards.  Then I dropped the mag 50% and hit 97 yards.  Adding some concentrated power for a few more casts and the longest went 123 yards.  It's about tackle setup, but technique is really where it's at for long distance casting ... just ask any tournament grass caster.  :)

 

 

ty for the detailed description... so - one the one hand i'm practicing this long distance casting as a tool for surf casting. as i may have said, i'm a newbie at fishing, altho i fished as a kid. so - when i am surf casting, i'm fishing actually for perch, on a big flat beach (ocean beach, sf). i'm *looking* to be able to cast 1 to 2 oz out beyond the first couple sets of breakers - that's one motivation for improving my casting. am i using the right logic and technique in pursuing this longer distance casting? i also fish in the first couple sets of breakers, definitely. or - am i really off base practicing these casts when i'm currently looking at only up to a couple ounces of lure. mr tennis ball seems to weight two ounces...

 

so i assume this is also a pretty good video for the hatteras cast? he seems to clarify the left arm even more...

 

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The lighter and/or more physically bulky (adding bait) the payload, the more difficult it will be to achieve any distance goal.  Setup is, as always, critical.  Tailor the rod and line to the payload, and have a reel capable of handling that line and payload.  There is no way I can reach the last sandbar at low tide with a rod/line/reel meant for a 4 to 5 ounce casting sweet spot that's now trying to do the same with 2 ounces - I have much lighter gear for that scenario.

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47 mins ago, BeachBob said:

The lighter and/or more physically bulky (adding bait) the payload, the more difficult it will be to achieve any distance goal.  Setup is, as always, critical.  Tailor the rod and line to the payload, and have a reel capable of handling that line and payload.  There is no way I can reach the last sandbar at low tide with a rod/line/reel meant for a 4 to 5 ounce casting sweet spot that's now trying to do the same with 2 ounces - I have much lighter gear for that scenario.

yes, i understand the rod and specified weight it can cast... my basic surf rod is 9' and can cast 3/4 to 2 oz... that's what i practice with. i also have a, to me, heavy heaver... an okuma longitude, 10', which can cast 3 to 8oz. i only use this for crab snaring. should i also practice with this rod? like with 6 to 8 oz of weight? or should i stick with a couple oz, and my lighter rod...

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2 mins ago, doublegregg said:

yes, i understand the rod and specified weight it can cast... my basic surf rod is 9' and can cast 3/4 to 2 oz... that's what i practice with. i also have a, to me, heavy heaver... an okuma longitude, 10', which can cast 3 to 8oz. i only use this for crab snaring. should i also practice with this rod? like with 6 to 8 oz of weight? or should i stick with a couple oz, and my lighter rod...

 

Since yer looking to cast 1-2oz, I'd stick with that rod and payload.

 

With yer Battle II spinner, what is the line type and its diameter?  What shock leader type/weight/length?

 

What specific kind of 1-1/2 to 2 ounce lure?

 

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