Birdsnester

VSX anti reverse play

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I just picked up my first VSX reel, it's a 200 size bailess.  I noticed something that seems odd to me.  When I move the rotor cup by hand to engage the anti reverse clutch there is a bit of play.  It's kind of springy feeling.  All my other spinning reels have very little movement in the reverse direction.  I searched the interwebs for an answer but found nothing.

 

Any thoughts on this?

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1 hour ago, Birdsnester said:

I just picked up my first VSX reel, it's a 200 size bailess.  I noticed something that seems odd to me.  When I move the rotor cup by hand to engage the anti reverse clutch there is a bit of play.  It's kind of springy feeling.  All my other spinning reels have very little movement in the reverse direction.  I searched the interwebs for an answer but found nothing.

 

Any thoughts on this?

every bailless Van Staal ive ever felt has had this. totally normal!

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5 mins ago, BassPD said:

Normal...normal...normal

Wow ok thanks very much.  It feels weird but if it’s normal it’s normal.  Thank you

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3 hours ago, Birdsnester said:

I just picked up my first VSX reel, it's a 200 size bailess.  I noticed something that seems odd to me.  When I move the rotor cup by hand to engage the anti reverse clutch there is a bit of play.  It's kind of springy feeling.  All my other spinning reels have very little movement in the reverse direction.  I searched the interwebs for an answer but found nothing.

 

Any thoughts on this?

Related question- Does the VSX have a clutch that's comparable to the older VS? Never been inside the VSX myself, but there's a biggggg difference between having an "anti-reverse system" and just having an "AR clutch" and its hard to determine based on how it's described. Obviously a clutch and a mechanical backup in addition is usually desirable, I just don't know what the VSX setup is if somebody could fill me in.

Edited by Sir Defyable
worded funny the first time

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10 mins ago, Sir Defyable said:

Does the VSX even have a clutch as compared to the older VS? Never been inside the VSX myself, but there's a biggggg difference between having an "anti-reverse mechanism" and having an "AR clutch" depending on how it's described. Obviously a clutch and a mechanical backup in addition is usually desirable.

Can you imagine buying a $900 reel that doesn't have an anti reverse clutch..... They most certainly have a beefy AR clutch.  Are you talking about using just a dog??

Edited by Bluetaildragger

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What everyone else said. Normal. Very sub-optimal. By design, a VS/VSX clutch sees 5-6 times the force and stress of pretty much any other spinning reel. That pinion has a huge mechanical advantage on the main gear and multiplies the force from the rotor, drag, etc on the clutch tremendously. Constant wear and force on the gear teeth too. Easy to build but nowhere even remotely as strong as a spinner where the clutch stops the pinion. It's an obsolete design that was largely phased out decades ago. 

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2 hours ago, Bluetaildragger said:

Can you imagine buying a $900 reel that doesn't have an anti reverse clutch..... They most certainly have a beefy AR clutch.  Are you talking about using just a dog??

Looks like you quoted me before I had a chance to re-word what I said, I re-read it and couldn't follow my own thoughts there. What I meant to ask was if there were improvements in the VSX compared to the VS- I have only owned a VS in the past that is my point of reference. So many companies are doing new things with the AR system in their reels, I'm curious if the Van Staal improvements were similar or somehow uniquely innovative.

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2 years ago I had a brand new 250 where the AR clutch went on me in less than 20 outings. I was going to have my reel guy replace it, but he couldn’t get parts from VS. I just sold to my friend at a discount and he had it serviced.. The AR never wobbled when I got it, felt solid. It failed on a couple high teen size fish in boulders.

I know I come across as a VS basher, but I expect my reels to perform, not fail in less than one season, if I’m paying that type of money, especially when I get the same results from a 704/706. I think Craig is a really good guy.  I just don’t think VS is what it used to be. 

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5 hours ago, RedGreen said:

What everyone else said. Normal. Very sub-optimal. By design, a VS/VSX clutch sees 5-6 times the force and stress of pretty much any other spinning reel. That pinion has a huge mechanical advantage on the main gear and multiplies the force from the rotor, drag, etc on the clutch tremendously. Constant wear and force on the gear teeth too. Easy to build but nowhere even remotely as strong as a spinner where the clutch stops the pinion. It's an obsolete design that was largely phased out decades ago. 

Well that’s disappointing lol oh my!!!

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5 mins ago, rbart said:

2 years ago I had a brand new 250 where the AR clutch went on me in less than 20 outings. I was going to have my reel guy replace it, but he couldn’t get parts from VS. I just sold to my friend at a discount and he had it serviced.. The AR never wobbled when I got it, felt solid. It failed on a couple high teen size fish in boulders.

I know I come across as a VS basher, but I expect my reels to perform, not fail in less than one season, if I’m paying that type of money, especially when I get the same results from a 704/706. I think Craig is a really good guy.  I just don’t think VS is what it used to be. 

Wow disappointing again.  Oh man I thought I was buying a top flight spinner.  Stinkerdoodles!!! 

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It still is, and you’ll probably be fine. Most people are. I still fish another one that I have, but mostly bc of how well it’s sealed. 
 

I just felt like I should add my .02 because it was so specific to your inquiry and I would’ve liked an honest response if I had asked the same question. Some fan boys on here will never criticize VS.

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Quote from Alan Hawk on his VSB (Bailed VS) review.

 

"It's important to note here that for the bailed version of the reel, Van Staal made a dramatic change to the anti-reverse. In the bailless version there is a small anti-reverse clutch that works on the shaft of the drive gear, and there is no anti-reverse on the pinion. In that older setup when a fish pulls the line, the pinion is free to spin back and is only stopped by the teeth of the drive gear because the drive gear is the one that has the clutch. Putting that sort of stress on the teeth of both gears isn't mechanically sound no matter how good the gear is, and it also leaves an annoying amount of play in the rotor because nothing brakes the pinion. An anti-reverse that works on the drive gear is an obsolete design that makers began to make away with around mid-1970s. Bass and most beach fishes won't harm that older design of the bailless VS, but big pelagic fish definitely would. This is not theoretical talk. I receive a large number of emails daily with questions and feedback, and over the past year I heard from 4 different people who used the bailless VS for heavy jigging and had all sorts of issues with them. One of those reels was sent to me and I was appalled by the deformation of the drive gear teeth and the small clutch on the handle. For the bailed boat VS though they wisely got rid of that drive gear clutch and opted for this larger clutch that works on the pinion. Besides strength and eliminating stress on the gears, changing the location of the anti-reverse clutch makes the bailed VS much easier to service now you don't have to worry about a lock down if the drive gear wasn't correctly aligned with the traverse guide as is the case with the bailless version"

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