832 vs maxcuatro vs sw stealth

[RWP]

I have been doing some more looking at the spreadsheet, and I find this pretty interesting. Ignoring ABS, because that number is irrelevant to fishing, I started comparing the FG Knot strength to the diameter. Using standard 50lb power pro as a diameter, because the reel is rated for 420yds of 50lb power pro.

 

Power Pro 50lb 0.163" - FG at 45lb

 

Maxcuatro 50lb 0.139" - FG at 38lb *line cap increased, strength decreased*

Maxcuatro 65lb 0.153" - FG at 51lb *line cap increased, strength increased*

Maxcuatro 80lb 0.186" - FG at 63.5lb *line cap decreased, strength increased*

Yo-zuri 50lb 0.165" - FG at 56lb *line cap similar, strength increased*

Suffix 832 50lb 0.176" - FG at 47lb *line cap decreased, strength increased*

Stealth 50lb - NO DATA

Stealth 65lb 0.177" - FG at 59lb *line cap decreased, strength increased*

 

 

[Sir Defyable]

37 mins ago, RWP said:

I have been doing some more looking at the spreadsheet, and I find this pretty interesting. Ignoring ABS, because that number is irrelevant to fishing, I started comparing the FG Knot strength to the diameter. Using standard 50lb power pro as a diameter, because the reel is rated for 420yds of 50lb power pro.

 

Power Pro 50lb 0.163" - FG at 45lb

 

Maxcuatro 50lb 0.139" - FG at 38lb *line cap increased, strength decreased*

Maxcuatro 65lb 0.153" - FG at 51lb *line cap increased, strength increased*

Maxcuatro 80lb 0.186" - FG at 63.5lb *line cap decreased, strength increased*

Yo-zuri 50lb 0.165" - FG at 56lb *line cap similar, strength increased*

Suffix 832 50lb 0.176" - FG at 47lb *line cap decreased, strength increased*

Stealth 50lb - NO DATA

Stealth 65lb 0.177" - FG at 59lb *line cap decreased, strength increased*

 

 

There’s a column for FG% that many believe is the most important column if that is your preferred leader knot. I would have to double check but I think power pro super slick was one of the better lines for FG knots and J Braid was up there too. I think spiderwire and 832 were lower in % but consistent through all line strengths, which is also important to me as inconsistent data points probably leads to the knot being difficult to replicate among different varieties.

 

maxcuatro kept cutting through the leader I know that much for sure.

[RWP]

Is running 125-150 yards of backing a bad idea? 600 yard spools are hard to find and expensive considering the reel will only take around 425 yards.

[Sir Defyable]

13 hours ago, RWP said:

Is running 125-150 yards of backing a bad idea? 600 yard spools are hard to find and expensive considering the reel will only take around 425 yards.

I don't think I've ever been in the situation where I casted, hooked up, and had the fish pull drag long enough to dump 300 yards of line. In order to get to the backing that would all have to happen, so I think you should be fine with that approach 

[squatchbobo]

I would take the spider wire or yozuri super braid

[RWP]

I ended up getting a 600 of 50lb 832 in camo for $40 from TW with the sale. Not my first choice of color, but the price was right.

 

They also have 600s 80lb for $33! I almost bought one of them too, but decided I don't really need it.

[dennysnook]

22 hours ago, RWP said:

I ended up getting a 600 of 50lb 832 in camo for $40 from TW with the sale. Not my first choice of color, but the price was right.

 

They also have 600s 80lb for $33! I almost bought one of them too, but decided I don't really need it.

Try Yozuri when you get around to respooling. I haven't been able to find a better performance to value line out there and used everything mentioned in this thread. 

[RockRonin]

Last week I pull tested the Maxcuatro with 40# flouro and 30# with one season on it. The line broke 3" above the FG knots. Since we usually use leaders stronger than our mainline, it suggests to me that if well maintained, for what I'll be using it for I'll be better off with about 500yds of the 65# Maxcuatro.

[RWP]

46 mins ago, dennysnook said:

Try Yozuri when you get around to respooling. I haven't been able to find a better performance to value line out there and used everything mentioned in this thread. 

I used some this summer with good results. Fades and fuzzes fast, but it was good line for sure.

[dennysnook]

3 mins ago, RWP said:

I used some this summer with good results. Fades and fuzzes fast, but it was good line for sure.

I use white and mainly the 4 strand < 50 and don't have too bad of fuzz or fade with the white. Some fuzz, no fade but blue leaves residue on guides. Get alot better longevity out of it than Ultracast/J-Braid and other 8 carriers that seem to fuzz up faster on me and it stays strong for me

[aquaholik]

Man I've been so busy. Glad to see you guys are putting the chart to good use. Lots of experienced anglers in here will tell you the truth about line durability which I didn't measure. Another aspect is line handling. That's highly subjective and diameter dependent. Fireline has exceptional handling under 14 lbs but above that it's too wiry for my need. All line testing is on hold until next year.

[cbinvb]

aquaholik, you are an asset to the sport my man, thank you for all your work.

 

I'm gonna throw YGK into the mix.  It is a relatively affordable JDM line, can be found all around, but not available in bulk.  I'll tell you why, but first...

 

---

A description of my fishing habits - 

 

     I mainly fish from the bank of a dam spillway for 20-30" rockfish using a large drop-shot rig (called "power-shotting").  Sounds simple, right?  The kicker is that in order to fish effectively, you need to to be casting your rig into the whitewater outflow of the dam gates which happens to be approx 150-180 yards from where I stand.  Solution is to use a 13ft rod with a sweet spot of 3-4oz, which is the weight of inline sinker (most aerodynamic sinker shape) we use to carry the payload, a 2-3" soft plastic or SW fly.  To make it interesting, the spillway is packed to the gills with very active/aggressive catfish (blue, flathead, channel cats) that easily top 20lb.  Oh, and the water is clear as mud entire and the river bed is full of rocky ridge lines and valleys. 

     So, now that you know what you need to do, you'll also need to do it standing elbow-to-elbow with 5 to 20 other fishermen, all with the same goal in mind, on a stretch of river bank approx 40ft wide and about as level as my hand after 5 cups of coffee.

 

     To recap...long cast, big target game, bigger by-catch, poor footing.  Yet, I keep going back...because I am ****ing crazy.  Each time I go, I'll stay for 3-9 hours, potentially making hundreds of casts.  So take my suggestion with the above scenario in mind.  The three primary properties I seek in braid are: castability, ABS (using palomar knot), and abrasion resistance (mostly in that order, but casting and ABS carry equal significance).  I need to cast far, because if I'm not in the whitewater, I'm not catching.  BUT break strength is equally important because the hardest fights come from pulling 30lb blue catfish out of heavy current.  Then, abrasion resistance because fish will often dig into the rocks on the river bed during the fight.

---

 

In my attempt to find the right mix of qualities, I have through the following braids in just the past one year, in the following order. 

(Keep in mind, I am comparing these braids based on their listed PE diameter (used PE 3), any comments are made relative to that property alone.)

 

Fireline Ultra 8 - pretty quiet but poorest casting of all (stiff line? it also sticks to itself on the spool), very good ABS, best abrasion resistance but line fray eventually hurt casting distance even even more (quickly dumped due to casting performance)

PowerPro - loud/rough = high-friction = lost casting distance, average ABS, good abrasion resistance (dumped due to casting performance)

PowerPro V2 -  quieter but not great, average caster, avg ABS, above avg abrasion resistance (dumped due to casting performance)

Daiwa J-braid x8 Grand - smooth and quiet, best caster thus far, above avg ABS, below avg abrasion resistance (This was my go-to for several months, dumped due to finding YGK)

Daiwa Morethan 12 - (only used PE 2 ) smoothest and best caster of all, very good ABS, poor abrasion resistance (dumped due to poor durability, saw increasingly frequent break-offs)

YGK X-Braid Upgrade X8 - very smooth/quiet, great caster, great ABS, average abrasion resistance

YGK X-Braid Fulldrag X8 - yet to try, but the stated ABS is highest per diameter compared to literally any other braid

 

The YGK Upgrade has been so good that I've used moved to using their PE 2 and 1.5 (40 & 30 lb ABS) but settled on PE 2 because PE 1.5 had just terrible abrasion resistance.

 

I will postulate that, beyond diameter (obviously) and quality of the spectra used, the braid weave itself (pattern, tightness, # fibers per carrier) and coating greatly influence the final qualities and usability of the braid.  I've looked most of these under a macro lens and the J-braid and PP had similar weave patterns, but J-braid was wound looser and had a slightly more fibers per carrier.  YGK X8 had a different weave pattern but was similarly tightly woven as PP V2 and had way more fibers per carrier.  Daiwa Morethan 12 is hard to put into context here because it uses 12 carriers, but both of the Daiwa braids I tried had the least persistent coating. 

 

I from my experience, it seem that:

Looser weave = better casting but lower abrasion resistance,

More fibers per carrier = higher ABS but reduced abrasion resistance,

High-quality or resilient coating = improved durability,

Weave pattern = ???

Note - looser weaves will hold more water once the line is wet which hurts casting distance.  I can't speak to whether having a "core" carrier has an impact.

 

Thank you for attending my lecture.  Homework is due Thursday.

 

[buddha162]

36 mins ago, cbinvb said:

The YGK Upgrade has been so good that I've used moved to using their PE 2 and 1.5 (40 & 30 lb ABS) but settled on PE 2 because PE 1.5 had just terrible abrasion resistance.

 

YGK Upgrade x8 is simply the best braid I've ever come across - PE 0.6 - 0.8 for spinning and PE 2 - 3 for my baitcasters. I don't need any abrasion resistance for my braid (that's what long leaders are for), and the YGK holds very, very little water even after its worn in (unlike say, j braid), this means it cuts through water much better than other limp braids that tend to stick to the surface esp when it's windy. So far it's been the perfect balance of decent body vs limpness, not wiry like Asegei or as limp as J braid x8, perfectly well behaved on my spinning reels even with a lot of slack line type retrieves (wiry braids will loop around the bottom of the spool). 

[aquaholik]

1 hour ago, cbinvb said:

aquaholik, you are an asset to the sport my man, thank you for all your work.

 

I'm gonna throw YGK into the mix.  It is a relatively affordable JDM line, can be found all around, but not available in bulk.  I'll tell you why, but first...

 

---

A description of my fishing habits - 

 

     I mainly fish from the bank of a dam spillway for 20-30" rockfish using a large drop-shot rig (called "power-shotting").  Sounds simple, right?  The kicker is that in order to fish effectively, you need to to be casting your rig into the whitewater outflow of the dam gates which happens to be approx 150-180 yards from where I stand.  Solution is to use a 13ft rod with a sweet spot of 3-4oz, which is the weight of inline sinker (most aerodynamic sinker shape) we use to carry the payload, a 2-3" soft plastic or SW fly.  To make it interesting, the spillway is packed to the gills with very active/aggressive catfish (blue, flathead, channel cats) that easily top 20lb.  Oh, and the water is clear as mud entire and the river bed is full of rocky ridge lines and valleys. 

     So, now that you know what you need to do, you'll also need to do it standing elbow-to-elbow with 5 to 20 other fishermen, all with the same goal in mind, on a stretch of river bank approx 40ft wide and about as level as my hand after 5 cups of coffee.

 

     To recap...long cast, big target game, bigger by-catch, poor footing.  Yet, I keep going back...because I am ****ing crazy.  Each time I go, I'll stay for 3-9 hours, potentially making hundreds of casts.  So take my suggestion with the above scenario in mind.  The three primary properties I seek in braid are: castability, ABS (using palomar knot), and abrasion resistance (mostly in that order, but casting and ABS carry equal significance).  I need to cast far, because if I'm not in the whitewater, I'm not catching.  BUT break strength is equally important because the hardest fights come from pulling 30lb blue catfish out of heavy current.  Then, abrasion resistance because fish will often dig into the rocks on the river bed during the fight.

---

 

In my attempt to find the right mix of qualities, I have through the following braids in just the past one year, in the following order. 

(Keep in mind, I am comparing these braids based on their listed PE diameter (used PE 3), any comments are made relative to that property alone.)

 

Fireline Ultra 8 - pretty quiet but poorest casting of all (stiff line? it also sticks to itself on the spool), very good ABS, best abrasion resistance but line fray eventually hurt casting distance even even more (quickly dumped due to casting performance)

PowerPro - loud/rough = high-friction = lost casting distance, average ABS, good abrasion resistance (dumped due to casting performance)

PowerPro V2 -  quieter but not great, average caster, avg ABS, above avg abrasion resistance (dumped due to casting performance)

Daiwa J-braid x8 Grand - smooth and quiet, best caster thus far, above avg ABS, below avg abrasion resistance (This was my go-to for several months, dumped due to finding YGK)

Daiwa Morethan 12 - (only used PE 2 ) smoothest and best caster of all, very good ABS, poor abrasion resistance (dumped due to poor durability, saw increasingly frequent break-offs)

YGK X-Braid Upgrade X8 - very smooth/quiet, great caster, great ABS, average abrasion resistance

YGK X-Braid Fulldrag X8 - yet to try, but the stated ABS is highest per diameter compared to literally any other braid

 

The YGK Upgrade has been so good that I've used moved to using their PE 2 and 1.5 (40 & 30 lb ABS) but settled on PE 2 because PE 1.5 had just terrible abrasion resistance.

 

I will postulate that, beyond diameter (obviously) and quality of the spectra used, the braid weave itself (pattern, tightness, # fibers per carrier) and coating greatly influence the final qualities and usability of the braid.  I've looked most of these under a macro lens and the J-braid and PP had similar weave patterns, but J-braid was wound looser and had a slightly more fibers per carrier.  YGK X8 had a different weave

You wouldn't be fishing Texoma dam would you? That's my old stomping ground around late 90's. Got swept away with my neoprene wader and I just floated to the shore line since the current was spreading and pushing toward the bank anyway.

 

Many moonlit night standing waist deep waiting for the striper to come up current. That was the time spiderwire came out and power pro followed shortly after but I was catching just fine with 14 lb mono and a medium size Daiwa Mag 10. When they didn't generate, there were still fish in various deep hole that love a mag darter and Long A Bomber. 

 

If I was stuck with fishing just fresh water, is hard to beat living in Dallas, TX. Spillway and lakes everywhere.

 

Anyway, YGK is the talk of the town in the spillway community so I was wondering if you're fishing that area.

[cbinvb]

27 mins ago, buddha162 said:

 

YGK Upgrade x8 is simply the best braid I've ever come across...

Glad to hear I'm not alone.  I have never seen mention of it on SOL in passing and aquaholik, ever in search of the strongest braid, has no tests on it either.  It's super popular overseas so it's odd that it hasn't caught on here yet.