Sporto10003

Charlie Graves and Snap Swivels

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Weld a solid stainless steel ring( Jump Rings)  I do it to a lot of my metals and doesn’t bind and kill any action vs a too tight of a split ring.  

 

 

616D88CC-D69B-481B-9350-F3C250D2A951.jpeg

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On 11/27/2020 at 7:12 PM, BrianBM said:

 

My own habit, over the years, is to fish both CG tins and bucktails on a loop knot.

 

As far as Rosco snaps go, I think most reports of failure are user error. It's not hard to mistake an open snap for a well-closed snap when you're fumbling around at night, especially with cold fingers. 

I'm a big fan of tying direct with loop knots. Loop knots do work well with tins when using heavier leaders and sand bottoms. They do need to be freshened after a few fish or hours of casting. The belly of the loops get worn out. Use a snap on rocky bottoms. 

Duolocks can be opened by fish. Three times I've had them open. Every time when using a bucktail or a storm shad. I think the close proximity to the hook bend and lack rotation on a jig hook puts them risk of being pulled against the edge of the jaw, which pops them open. I've never had them open on a tin or a plug. Definitely not operater error. It does and can happen. In fact I know other fisherman, better than I that have had them open. If you haven't your just not using them often enough. They will eventually let you down when attached to a jig hook. I prefer to tie direct, if I don't I use the paper clip style. Sans my CGs which still get Duolocks. 

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7 mins ago, norcalkat said:

Weld a solid stainless steel ring( Jump Rings)  I do it to a lot of my metals and doesn’t bind and kill any action vs a too tight of a split ring.  

 

 

616D88CC-D69B-481B-9350-F3C250D2A951.jpeg

Looks like a great solution. I wish I could weld jump rings! 

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6 hours ago, RockRonin said:

Which size do you recommend?

For FW I use size 1.5 (38#) and SW size 3 (70#) & 4 (90#)…

 

These things are wicked strong.

Edited by Inshore

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On 12/1/2020 at 10:13 AM, Reel Fly 18 said:

No. Your tins maybe working "flawlessly" as far as you know. They'll still work better on a snap. Split rings large enough to fit the tins disturb the water flow too much around the critical bow area of the tin. Snaps have a slimmer vertical profile so the water flow over the lure is cleaner resulting in more action. Trust me I've tried your way several times but I always come back to duolocks. If you don't believe me at least believe Ralph the guy who makes them and he'll tell you not to use split rings.

What Ralph has said to me numerous times is that a "double-hinge" makes the Tins swim wrong and actually negates the tight flutter, making the Tins "snake" when they swim. He advocates "not using" a split-ring because most guys will then use a lure clip on the split-ring. The lure clip doesn't grab the split ring securely, it allows it to have significant play & that's actually what the problem is. 

 

If you want to use a split ring or a solid ring, simply tie directly to that opposed to using clips altogether. If you do that, the Tin will swim exactly the same as it would if you used a bell shaped or egg shaped snap. 

 

I have tested this in my current tank in the shop and also to this day use both methods on the water & have been using both methods with equal results. I have also discussed these results with Ralph and he concurs. 

 

Think about it, a snap is half a circle. A ring is a full circle. They both allow the tin plenty of play. Its the connection point extra hinge that you don't want. 

 

Ralph also has had to deal with numerous upset people who try to pry a split ring onto the Tin and they wind up mangling the Tin as a result, so he will steer people away from using split rings for this reason also. 

 

Quite frankly, the easiest method is to use the proper type of clip and be done with it. The whole point of using Tins is to "rotate" from one to the next, then move & repeat. Clips allow for fast changes and no knots, which saves on leader material. 

 

Also, polishing is highly recommended by me, especially if you like to fish Tins deeper. I have noticed a huge difference in daytime catch rates with polished Tins vs unpolished. If you fish at night, paint it black as they say. Why polish anything in that case. 

 

Lastly, two more points. Charlie Graves does not make plated-lead Tins. Ralph pours them two ways - from Block Tin or from White Metal (scrap metal). Block Tin, when poured into the same mold with the exact same dimensions, will produce a decidedly lighter lure. Polished Tin is absolutely shiny and reflective. White Metal remains shiny way longer without the need to be polished. It is also comparatively heavier and therefore worse for most beach fishing because any lure over 2 oz tends to get hung up easily in many places.

 

The reason most shops carry the White Metal Tins is because they are quite a bit less expensive. Tin is more expensive as a metal and that's why Ralph makes white metal Tins. Tackle shops want the least expensive lures because that's what fishermen want. Side by side on two pegs, white metal tins sell at a rate of 10:1 and the only people who would want a Tin lure are people who actually know what they're doing & who have some experience dating back several decades or more. Most other fishermen just wouldn't even think to ask why they should be using Tin instead of white metal and still others simply do everything based on whichever costs less. 

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On 12/1/2020 at 11:09 AM, norcalkat said:

Weld a solid stainless steel ring( Jump Rings)  I do it to a lot of my metals and doesn’t bind and kill any action vs a too tight of a split ring.  

 

 

616D88CC-D69B-481B-9350-F3C250D2A951.jpeg

This is how a lot West Coast Metals are handled. In fact a good number of them come already ringed. "Too-Tight" of a split ring is just as bad as using a standard TA clip. They bind the Tin from moving. In this picture above, the opposite is true. The Tin is free to move. Nice post NCK.

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Another few thoughts(I try not to have too many in one day these days, so this is it for me today) -

 

>>>>> Regarding Duo-Locks. Not all re created equal. Some have a lot more tension when locked, others have significant play and still others are just plain inferior. When people say Duo-Locks pop open or they work great & don't have problems - I've been trained in my long career in the fishing industry to yawn and tell them to go get a pack of jerkey & shut up. LOL (only kidding). Actually, I've been trained to ask a question. "What brand of Duo-Lock are you using?" Answers vary - (P-Line, VMC, Rapala, Duo-Lock, "Got 'em off Amazon" type, American Fishing Wire, Arnold, Goture, Sea Striker, Rosco, Brad's, Asari, FinStrike, Yongzhi - yawnnn)

 

Yeah. Some aren't made that great compared to others. Rather than having our readers sitting around panting like a lizard on a hot rock waiting for some good advice on this topic, I generally just tell people to head over to the off-shore isle because that stuff is where it's at. 

 

Some guys aren't rich enough to be eatin' fried chicken all week long, so cost comes into play when you buy odds & ends, sure. But even really well made snaps are pretty inexpensive, so let me give you the bacon without the sizzle -

 

I've been using Catch-All Snaps for a looooong time and not one has ever "popped open" on a fish. GT's, Tuna of all sorts, Tarpon, Roosters, Stripers, Blues, Cudas, Marlin, Sailfish, Billfish..etc. Are they the best clips out there? Dunno. But even if you're tighter than a clothesline and like to squeeze your nickels 'till the Buffalo's scream, you could probably find it in your black little hearts to spring for a 25 pack of these here bad-boys. 

60f9b83596e23_Screenshot2021-07-222_25_35PM.png.8a3c89ab8d244156a59e7dce79b8eb5a.png60f9b8103dc40_Screenshot2021-07-222_24_59PM.png.00b47ff5865fdc09f1d42c049e61339f.png

 

What you're basically looking for is a nice, heavy, fairly low profile clip that allows a Tin to have a little bit of wiggle room. Kind of like expanded waist-line pants. Tin's need to be able to shake it when the fishing looks like it's about to be so good it's like you might be riding a gravy train with biscuit wheels! I know we've all had days and nights where the fishin' was so hot it was like the hens were layin' hard boiled eggs.

 

You're looking for something with a bell shape to it. 

 

Now before you start thinking I have a hole in my screen door, hang on just a second and consider what's most important because I do know that if a duck had my brain it would NOT fly north for the winter like some of you are thinking.

 

The whole purpose of fishing Tins IS to switch them. That's why we have the Rotation (see Tins thread for info on that). You move through your rotation, then YOU move!

 

The idea is, you're throwing the most commonly found sized bait-fish from spot to spot. Bait hugs the shore. Stripers work the troughs as the waves crest. Bait gets sucked into the trough from the backwash of the previous wave. Bait schools up around your Tin as you retrieve it nice & smooth. Striper pounds into the bait, which scatters. It see's the feather kicker, which looks to be the exact size of the bait. It sees the glow of your Tin's belly, again, the exact size of the bait. the Striper then hits one or the other - IT DON'T MATTER WHICH!

 

We could sit around & think about all this until our brains become colder than cast-iron commodes, or we could go out & try the right dang type of lure clip. 

 

What I do know  that if you don't catch anything, then your supper's probably gonna be fried water! So try using a Catch-All Snap & try the Rotation. What do you have to lose???

 

Edited by CaryGreene

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7 hours ago, CaryGreene said:

Another few thoughts(I try not to have too many in one day these days, so this is it for me today) -

 

>>>>> Regarding Duo-Locks. Not all re created equal. Some have a lot more tension when locked, others have significant play and still others are just plain inferior. When people say Duo-Locks pop open or they work great & don't have problems - I've been trained in my long career in the fishing industry to yawn and tell them to go get a pack of jerkey & shut up. LOL (only kidding). Actually, I've been trained to ask a question. "What brand of Duo-Lock are you using?" Answers vary - (P-Line, VMC, Rapala, Duo-Lock, "Got 'em off Amazon" type, American Fishing Wire, Arnold, Goture, Sea Striker, Rosco, Brad's, Asari, FinStrike, Yongzhi - yawnnn)

 

Yeah. Some aren't made that great compared to others. Rather than having our readers sitting around panting like a lizard on a hot rock waiting for some good advice on this topic, I generally just tell people to head over to the off-shore isle because that stuff is where it's at. 

 

Some guys aren't rich enough to be eatin' fried chicken all week long, so cost comes into play when you buy odds & ends, sure. But even really well made snaps are pretty inexpensive, so let me give you the bacon without the sizzle -

 

I've been using Catch-All Snaps for a looooong time and not one has ever "popped open" on a fish. GT's, Tuna of all sorts, Tarpon, Roosters, Stripers, Blues, Cudas, Marlin, Sailfish, Billfish..etc. Are they the best clips out there? Dunno. But even if you're tighter than a clothesline and like to squeeze your nickels 'till the Buffalo's scream, you could probably find it in your black little hearts to spring for a 25 pack of these here bad-boys. 

60f9b83596e23_Screenshot2021-07-222_25_35PM.png.8a3c89ab8d244156a59e7dce79b8eb5a.png60f9b8103dc40_Screenshot2021-07-222_24_59PM.png.00b47ff5865fdc09f1d42c049e61339f.png

 

What you're basically looking for is a nice, heavy, fairly low profile clip that allows a Tin to have a little bit of wiggle room. Kind of like expanded waist-line pants. Tin's need to be able to shake it when the fishing looks like it's about to be so good it's like you might be riding a gravy train with biscuit wheels! I know we've all had days and nights where the fishin' was so hot it was like the hens were layin' hard boiled eggs.

 

You're looking for something with a bell shape to it. 

 

Now before you start thinking I have a hole in my screen door, hang on just a second and consider what's most important because I do know that if a duck had my brain it would NOT fly north for the winter like some of you are thinking.

 

The whole purpose of fishing Tins IS to switch them. That's why we have the Rotation (see Tins thread for info on that). You move through your rotation, then YOU move!

 

The idea is, you're throwing the most commonly found sized bait-fish from spot to spot. Bait hugs the shore. Stripers work the troughs as the waves crest. Bait gets sucked into the trough from the backwash of the previous wave. Bait schools up around your Tin as you retrieve it nice & smooth. Striper pounds into the bait, which scatters. It see's the feather kicker, which looks to be the exact size of the bait. It sees the glow of your Tin's belly, again, the exact size of the bait. the Striper then hits one or the other - IT DON'T MATTER WHICH!

 

We could sit around & think about all this until our brains become colder than cast-iron commodes, or we could go out & try the right dang type of lure clip. 

 

What I do know  that if you don't catch anything, then your supper's probably gonna be fried water! So try using a Catch-All Snap & try the Rotation. What do you have to lose???

 

Cary lurking through the forum with precise accurate information.

 

Thank you once again my friend :howdy:

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Fellow SOL member SC spoke about an old school way of rigging tins with wire. I took that idea and used .051 through wire. The object was to be able to use TA clips  on tins . I call them "dog bones". I also have used them on 8/0 forged Mustad hooks which I use in  bucktails. That size Mustad is next to impossible to attach to a TA clip.

I am able to do 3 different size loops and they don't bind. A J7 swims like a Bomber when using a TA clip and a "bone" in it's nose.

Marc

IMG_0018.jpg

Edited by mml4

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23 hours ago, mml4 said:

Fellow SOL member SC spoke about an old school way of rigging tins with wire. I took that idea and used .051 through wire. The object was to be able to use TA clips  on tins . I call them "dog bones". I also have used them on 8/0 forged Mustad hooks which I use in  bucktails. That size Mustad is next to impossible to attach to a TA clip.

I am able to do 3 different size loops and they don't bind. A J7 swims like a Bomber when using a TA clip and a "bone" in it's nose.

Marc

IMG_0018.jpg

You salty Dog! We need to change your name to "sea-wolf." mml4 is dead to me. 

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