Sporto10003

Charlie Graves and Snap Swivels

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Bought the recommended size by cg from the jersey tackle supplier that does the fleamarkets.  Sure someone knows his company name. They go on like butter with the pliers in pick which also a jersey company 

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On 11/27/2020 at 7:12 PM, BrianBM said:

I couldn't figure out how to put a split ring on a CG either, but if Ralph says not to bother, I won't try. I'll treat that as gospel unless and until I have a reason not to do so.

 

My own habit, over the years, is to fish both CG tins and bucktails on a loop knot.

 

As far as Rosco snaps go, I think most reports of failure are user error. It's not hard to mistake an open snap for a well-closed snap when you're fumbling around at night, especially with cold fingers. Umpteen years ago, TimS mentioned using pliers to make the snaps a little harder to close, by bending down the tag end of the snap that goes over the other side; this makes it harder to do it wrong.  @TimS  ??

You used all the split rings I gave you for nipple decorations? 

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Been using CG tins for almost 40years and they’re the only lures I still attach with Rosco Duolocks. I’ve had them opened by fish 3 times on bucktails and swimbaits but never on a tin for whatever reason. I generally leave one on each CG tin and bend the snap’s hook over so it can’t be accidentally opened. I will also square the big end of the snap a little to match the contours of the rivet (Lure eye). Btw Ralph is right split rings that are large enough to fit dampen the action. I’ve used loop knots with success with 30lb+ leaders. I don’t trust the abrasion resistance of lighter leaders. They still work best with Duolocks for me. That said the egg snaps shown earlier in the thread should be equally good but I have no experience with them.

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On 11/25/2020 at 6:44 AM, SC said:

I will say that you should test the same exact tin with and without an added split ring on the front and decide for yourself whether the changed action is a benefit or determent. I am not saying it won't work, I am saying the action will not be the same. I tried this almost 50 years ago and removed the added rings after testing. My personal findings were I'll take the increased chance of a distorted snap over reduced overall catch and confidence I felt were the result of the changed action.  

Is this about having a single "metal loop" (could be a split ring *or* a snap *or* a solid ring) between the line and the tin?  Are there any specific pros or cons regarding the shape (round or elongate) or size *(diameter or length) of the metal loop?  

 

(I understand the challenges when tying to a split ring. I've recently received some custom heavy wire 5/8" and 3/4" split rings that have enough "single wire" space to make tying a leader onto them pretty simple, it appears.)

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Southcoastphil said:

Is this about having a single "metal loop" (could be a split ring *or* a snap *or* a solid ring) between the line and the tin?  Are there any specific pros or cons regarding the shape (round or elongate) or size *(diameter or length) of the metal loop?  

 

(I understand the challenges when tying to a split ring. I've recently received some custom heavy wire 5/8" and 3/4" split rings that have enough "single wire" space to make tying a leader onto them pretty simple, it appears.)

 

 

 

Yes my opinion is exactly what you stated in your first sentence. The single snap, split, solid ring pivots in the tin front eyelet but once the equation is changed by the introduction of an additional pivot point such as a snap AND a split the action  can not be the same as the equation is not the same.

Edited by SC

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7 hours ago, Southcoastphil said:

(I understand the challenges when tying to a split ring. I've recently received some custom heavy wire 5/8" and 3/4" split rings that have enough "single wire" space to make tying a leader onto them pretty simple, it appears.)

 

 

 

In my opinion tying to the single wire offset insures the split is in the must venerable position for failure

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20 hours ago, Reel Fly 18 said:

Been using CG tins for almost 40years and they’re the only lures I still attach with Rosco Duolocks. I’ve had them opened by fish 3 times on bucktails and swimbaits but never on a tin for whatever reason. I generally leave one on each CG tin and bend the snap’s hook over so it can’t be accidentally opened. I will also square the big end of the snap a little to match the contours of the rivet (Lure eye). Btw Ralph is right split rings that are large enough to fit dampen the action. I’ve used loop knots with success with 30lb+ leaders. I don’t trust the abrasion resistance of lighter leaders. They still work best with Duolocks for me. That said the egg snaps shown earlier in the thread should be equally good but I have no experience with them.

Have to say I notice that the larger of the two tins is way less productive than the smaller-- guess im gna try some rosco-snaps with the winter hardware swaps, thanks for the tips guys! 

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Are we saying that putting a split ring on a Charlie Graves inhibits its' action?  I have to tell you that i've been putting split rings on all my CG tins and they perform flawlessly.

I also get some great action on a variety of retrieve speeds.

 

Anyone else get the same results??

 

 

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3 hours ago, RyanJ_88 said:

Have to say I notice that the larger of the two tins is way less productive than the smaller-- guess im gna try some rosco-snaps with the winter hardware swaps, thanks for the tips guys! 

You may be onto something about the smaller sizes. I'm going to share what has worked for me over the years. I've mostly fished open sandy beaches with a 9L Lami so I use mostly J5s and J6s. They weigh about 1 and 1.2 ounces respectively. I prefer the J6s. I also carry a J8 and a D5 in my 10 footer bag. The J8 is about 1.75 ounces the D5 is a little lighter. The D5 is shaped closer to Diamond jig then a tin squid. They're better than the Js at getting down in rough surf. 

When bass were thin in the eighties I could likely catch a bass on a J6 if I worked the mile of beachfront to the jetty and back. No other lure produced as well during daylight. They work at night too, but I prefer bucktails at night. 

 

Tip 1-Use the tin models. They are lighter and much more lively in the water. These things cast like bullets for their weight so don't worry about the tin being lighter then the chromed lead models that are sometimes available. Another advantage of the tin models is you can bend them easily to tune the action needed without damaging them. The tin is also more durable then the chromed lead if you bang it on a rock. The tin by far out fish the lead.

Tip 2- Don't polish the tin. They've always worked better for me tarnished grey. Some people painted them black and fished them at night. I'm a fan of black lures at night but never found this necessary.

Tip 3- Use the chicken feather models they swim better and produce more fish then the ones with bucktail hooks. The bucktail creates too much drag and acts like a kite tail, straightening the action somewhat. I'm not even sure if Ralph options bucktailed hooks anymore. I have a dozen or more backups so I haven't been looking for them.

Tip 4- reel them as slow and steady as possible WITHOUT dragging them on the bottom. Dragging them on the bottom straightens the action out ruining the swimming action. You want the lure to swim with a wobble only occasionally touching bottom. DON'T add twitching to the retrieve. It will only flip over and dig into the sand like an anchor.

 

I've caught more fish on the J6 then I can count. I think that perhaps the smaller models work better for some of us has more to do with them being able to be fished slowly without dragging bottom. I don't fish the surf much anymore but the J6s are still catching fish for me from a boat. They work particularly well with fussy fish surfacing on small bait in deep water. Then they are fished more like a traditional spoon.

I hope this helps and if you ever get a chance to speak to Ralph, LISTEN to him, he's awesome.

image.jpg

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4 mins ago, yogiiiboy said:

Are we saying that putting a split ring on a Charlie Graves inhibits its' action?  I have to tell you that i've been putting split rings on all my CG tins and they perform flawlessly.

I also get some great action on a variety of retrieve speeds.

 

Anyone else get the same results??

 

 

No. Your tins maybe working "flawlessly" as far as you know. They'll still work better on a snap. Split rings large enough to fit the tins disturb the water flow too much around the critical bow area of the tin. Snaps have a slimmer vertical profile so the water flow over the lure is cleaner resulting in more action. Trust me I've tried your way several times but I always come back to duolocks. If you don't believe me at least believe Ralph the guy who makes them and he'll tell you not to use split rings.

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42 mins ago, Reel Fly 18 said:

You may be onto something about the smaller sizes. I'm going to share what has worked for me over the years. I've mostly fished open sandy beaches with a 9L Lami so I use mostly J5s and J6s. They weigh about 1 and 1.2 ounces respectively. I prefer the J6s. I also carry a J8 and a D5 in my 10 footer bag. The J8 is about 1.75 ounces the D5 is a little lighter. The D5 is shaped closer to Diamond jig then a tin squid. They're better than the Js at getting down in rough surf. 

When bass were thin in the eighties I could likely catch a bass on a J6 if I worked the mile of beachfront to the jetty and back. No other lure produced as well during daylight. They work at night too, but I prefer bucktails at night. 

 

Tip 1-Use the tin models. They are lighter and much more lively in the water. These things cast like bullets for their weight so don't worry about the tin being lighter then the chromed lead models that are sometimes available. Another advantage of the tin models is you can bend them easily to tune the action needed without damaging them. The tin is also more durable then the chromed lead if you bang it on a rock. The tin by far out fish the lead.

Tip 2- Don't polish the tin. They've always worked better for me tarnished grey. Some people painted them black and fished them at night. I'm a fan of black lures at night but never found this necessary.

Tip 3- Use the chicken feather models they swim better and produce more fish then the ones with bucktail hooks. The bucktail creates too much drag and acts like a kite tail, straightening the action somewhat. I'm not even sure if Ralph options bucktailed hooks anymore. I have a dozen or more backups so I haven't been looking for them.

Tip 4- reel them as slow and steady as possible WITHOUT dragging them on the bottom. Dragging them on the bottom straightens the action out ruining the swimming action. You want the lure to swim with a wobble only occasionally touching bottom. DON'T add twitching to the retrieve. It will only flip over and dig into the sand like an anchor.

 

I've caught more fish on the J6 then I can count. I think that perhaps the smaller models work better for some of us has more to do with them being able to be fished slowly without dragging bottom. I don't fish the surf much anymore but the J6s are still catching fish for me from a boat. They work particularly well with fussy fish surfacing on small bait in deep water. Then they are fished more like a traditional spoon.

I hope this helps and if you ever get a chance to speak to Ralph, LISTEN to him, he's awesome.

 

Great info thanks for the tips--  only seen some videos of Ralph but one thing I did learn, you always win with tin lol.

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On 11/25/2020 at 3:20 AM, Sporto10003 said:

Got a few nice Charlie Graves lures and want to use the but to thick to use tactical clip directly.  Looking at snap swivels, but don't trust them with a heavy fish.  Split rings won't work even the biggest sizes.  Any alternatives?

You can add a split ring to these.  When you first put it on the split ring will be distorted  but all you have to do is twist the ring inside out with a needle nose plier hold it for a minute or two then pop it back out and presto the split ring is back to its correct shape.  Stewie posted this procedure a few years ago and I have been using ever since.  This way I get to use clips and can change tins easily.  

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