JohnP

What does ‘knowledge’ mean to you?

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10 hours ago, BW said:

But that is what you are paying for....any jackass can buy a nice boat, and most of that group can get a captains license. You are paying for the guides ability to put his experience on the water, successes and failures into practice on a consistent basis to get his clients into fish. Some guys are very good at this, some not so much. So back to the original question, If a guide has the confidence to scratch a boat trip for whatever reason, and is able to get you into fish from shore, it would seem he is worth the freight regardless of venue.   

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In the quote above a contributor here points out that when we hire a captain, or even go out on a friends advice, we are sort hoping to get some knowledge 

 

But what does that mean?

 

Is it ok if he takes you to fish but gives you no indication of why the fish might be there?

 

Are you paying for him to tell you exactly what to throw, how to retrieve ?

 

Are you ok if he puts you on fish, but it’s so rough you can’t stand?

 

Are you expecting some extra tips on how to get the fish to eat when they get lockjaw?

 

are you going out with very specific requirements for how you will fish (‘I’ll only use a floating line and will only cast to fish I see first’) and he has to work within your

parameters?

 

what does ‘knowledge mean to you?

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I guess it’s relative to where each of us are at? 
Personally I’m too cheap to blow money on a guide. In one sense it’s being frugal. 
Yet on another the five of us were raised by a Master Guide. 
From when getting that title meant two full days of oral boards in front of Senior Game Wardens followed by a couple more days in the woods and waters for hands on tests. 
He was into most anything hunting and fishing related. So by default so we’re us kids. 
The skills passed on, at least in my sense. Have been ones I’ve shared with my child, friends, and family. But only if they’re receptive to it. 
I’ve run across a few that used the title guide and are in my opinion are complete frauds. 
Honestl if my guide did all that for me. I’d be insanely pleased. 

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When I think about "knowledge" on the part of a guide, I think of an array of things that all end at the hightened likelihood of a hookup.

 

It starts with knowing what fish are available at any particular time, where those fish are likely to be at any particular point given the time, tide, and weather, and what those fish are likely to respond to in terms of bait or lures--and, perhaps, whether they're likely to respond at all under certain conditions.

 

After that, it includes knowing how to handle a boat (if a boat is employed) and how to instruct an angler to present the lure to the fish in a way likely to result in success.  Part of that is the knowledge to size up an angler and decide which techniques are viable options in view of the anglers' experience, abilities and perhaps physical condition.

 

The final step is the knowledge of how to make up for an angler's shortcomings, whether that means teaching him how to let a lure swing in the current or how to improve his cast enough to put a fly where the fish are before they leave.  If an angler wants to fish a particiular way, which might not be the most effective way at any given time, it includes the knowledge of maximizing the possibility of catching a fish even while using a sub-optimal technique, and also the knowledge/intrapersonal skills to be able to talk most clients out of sticking to a technique that is so far out of the mainstream that it can't succeed.

 

All of those different aspects of knowledge are important, and the truly top guide will exhibit every one of them.  Guides who don't master all of the areas will diminish the likelihood of a successful and enjoyable trip, although the degree of diminishment will depend on the circumstances, and will, at times, be negligible.

 

 

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8 hours ago, CWitek said:

When I think about "knowledge" on the part of a guide, I think of an array of things that all end at the hightened likelihood of a hookup.

 

It starts with knowing what fish are available at any particular time, where those fish are likely to be at any particular point given the time, tide, and weather, and what those fish are likely to respond to in terms of bait or lures--and, perhaps, whether they're likely to respond at all under certain conditions.

 

After that, it includes knowing how to handle a boat (if a boat is employed) and how to instruct an angler to present the lure to the fish in a way likely to result in success.  Part of that is the knowledge to size up an angler and decide which techniques are viable options in view of the anglers' experience, abilities and perhaps physical condition.

 

The final step is the knowledge of how to make up for an angler's shortcomings, whether that means teaching him how to let a lure swing in the current or how to improve his cast enough to put a fly where the fish are before they leave.  If an angler wants to fish a particiular way, which might not be the most effective way at any given time, it includes the knowledge of maximizing the possibility of catching a fish even while using a sub-optimal technique, and also the knowledge/intrapersonal skills to be able to talk most clients out of sticking to a technique that is so far out of the mainstream that it can't succeed.

 

All of those different aspects of knowledge are important, and the truly top guide will exhibit every one of them.  Guides who don't master all of the areas will diminish the likelihood of a successful and enjoyable trip, although the degree of diminishment will depend on the circumstances, and will, at times, be negligible.

 

 

I’ve spoken to many guides who complain (or at least acknowledge) customers want to use their own gear, rigged their own way, particularly their own flies or lures... but then talk about the importance of a ‘guides knowledge.’  
 

As an example some joke about the irony that the novice women who come out often have better success, because they are more open and willing to listen to what the guide suggests 

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16 hours ago, JohnP said:

I’ve spoken to many guides who complain (or at least acknowledge) customers want to use their own gear, rigged their own way, particularly their own flies or lures... but then talk about the importance of a ‘guides knowledge.’  
 

As an example some joke about the irony that the novice women who come out often have better success, because they are more open and willing to listen to what the guide suggests 

The comment about women is absolutely true.  I saw that years ago when I worked in a tackle shop and had to teach people to cast.  The women listened, the kids listened, and the men kept either throwing the sinker straight up in the air or slamming it into the parking lot pavement, because they wanted to do it their way.

 

Saw tghe same thing the last couple of summers when I took grad students out tagging sharks.  The women were, on the whole, the better anglers, because they listened.

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On 11/25/2020 at 6:49 PM, JohnP said:

I’ve spoken to many guides who complain (or at least acknowledge) customers want to use their own gear, rigged their own way, particularly their own flies or lures... but then talk about the importance of a ‘guides knowledge.’  
 

Credit to the angler in that situation.  What is the appeal in having a guide do everything for you so you can reel in a fish and pose for a picture?  

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8 hours ago, numbskull said:

Credit to the angler in that situation.  What is the appeal in having a guide do everything for you so you can reel in a fish and pose for a picture?  

 

look at it this way, if the angler insists on doing it his way, the captain is still recorded as having a skunk for the day

 

and no angler is going to tell his buddies ‘there were fish, I didn’t do what the captain suggested, but I insisted on doing it my way, and so we got skunked’ 

Edited by JohnP

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2 hours ago, JohnP said:

 

look at it this way, if the angler insists on doing it his way, the captain is still recorded as having a skunk for the day

 

We see things differently.  

I judge a guide by how hard he works to find fish.  What happens once he finds them is my problem.  Obviously I'll take his advice into account but the last thing I'm looking for is to be used as a puppet to catch a fish so the guide will be happy.

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1 hour ago, numbskull said:

We see things differently.  

I judge a guide by how hard he works to find fish.  What happens once he finds them is my problem.  Obviously I'll take his advice into account but the last thing I'm looking for is to be used as a puppet to catch a fish so the guide will be happy.


I’d love for it to be true... as pictured here, I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing... but if the angler aint hooking up he  ain’t happy.   Lol

 

 

 

CDAF1567-A643-4699-80EA-97E26BDD4C10.jpeg

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My view may be too simplistic. But, if I go out with a charter captain or a more seasoned fisherman, and I learn at least one thing that will make me better, then I have gained knowledge. Honestly, nothing makes me happier.

Edited by BlackRock
grammar

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