Mahigo

Century FMA2 13ft rod modifications?

Rate this topic

46 posts in this topic

Hi all,  


I am looking for your advice.
I have an original UK Century FMA2 13ft rod with Century SiC 50, 40, 30, 25, 20 and 16 tip.
The stripper 50 mm guide is 49”/1250 mm from the real seat. Always using braid line.
Using Daiwa reels:
1.) Daiwa Emblem Z5500A (77mm OD spool)
2.) Daiwa Isla 5000H (67mm OD spool)


The reason to replace the guides is to reduce the rod case size.
My first the cheapest option is to replace the 50 with 40 cause I have a spare Century SiC 40, 40, 30, 25, 20.
Can I go with the new configuration 40, 40, 30, 25, 20 and 16 tip or 40, 30, 30, 25, 20? Or any other possibilities with using my spare guides.
The second option is much more expensive to replace all guides but I have no idea what to buy.  


How small the stripper guide I can use with the 13ft rod and 77 mm OD spool with the bride?

 

Thank you in advance,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

I would recommend 40, 25, 16, 12, 12 and 12 tip.  In addition, I would recommend replacing all guides with Fuji BMNAG concept guides - Black Chrome Stainless Frame with Alconite rings. Big improvement over SiC, especially when using braid.  Your Rod, incidentally, was rung for monofilament with a 70lb test Mono shock leader attached with a Slim Beauty knot, which was the standard of the day.  You should be using 30lb braid main line with a 100lb Monoi Hollow Braid shock leader, attached with either an FG knot or spliced to the main line with the method I describe on page 2 of this thread:

 

 

Edited by FlatWing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

18 hours ago, Mahigo said:

I have an original UK Century FMA2 13ft rod with Century SiC 50, 40, 30, 25, 20 and 16 tip.
The stripper 50 mm guide is 49”/1250 mm from the real seat. Always using braid line.
Using Daiwa reels:
1.) Daiwa Emblem Z5500A (77mm OD spool)
2.) Daiwa Isla 5000H (67mm OD spool)


The reason to replace the guides is to reduce the rod case size.
My first the cheapest option is to replace the 50 with 40 cause I have a spare Century SiC 40, 40, 30, 25, 20.

Brand new guides?  I would never suggest MN's over KW.

KW 30H 25 20 12 10 10 10 10 10 #10 tip

To Use what you have:with a 5 guide set up (not ideal)

40 30 25 20 16 and a 16 tip top (close to a typical UK "40" carp layout)

Edited by ZAFisher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

14 hours ago, FlatWing said:

I would recommend 40, 25, 16, 12, 12 and 12 tip.  In addition, I would recommend replacing all guides with Fuji BMNAG concept guides - Black Chrome Stainless Frame with Alconite rings. Big improvement over SiC, especially when using braid.  Your Rod, incidentally, was rung for monofilament with a 70lb test Mono shock leader attached with a Slim Beauty knot, which was the standard of the day.  You should be using 30lb braid main line with a 100lb Monoi Hollow Braid shock leader, attached with either an FG knot or spliced to the main line with the method I describe on page 2 of this thread:

 

 

 

6 hours ago, ZAFisher said:

Brand new guides?  I would never suggest MN's over KW.

KW 30H 25 20 12 10 10 10 10 10 #10 tip

To Use what you have:with a 5 guide set up (not ideal)

40 30 25 20 16 and a 16 tip top (close to a typical UK "40" carp layout)

FlatWing, 

 

I am using 20lb or 30lb braid and 50lb to 60lb short mono leader just about ~2ft connecting with double uni or FG knots. Perhaps 100lb braid for a shock leader will be much easer too used. 

I wasn’t aware of the difference between SiC and Alconite inserts… always thought ceramic rings are all the same. Hmmm it looks like I need to study more. Thank you for the advice. If I go with your setup 40, 25, 16, 12, 12 and 12 tip guides will go on the same spots, is that correct? 

Possible to get this way 30, 25, 16, 12, 12 and 12 tip ????

With this setup throwing lures is no problem I can get a nice long distance in Mexico.

But the problem is with the big guides sticking out and it’s hard to fit into rod case. 

Normally I used Plano Jumbo Airliner rod case and there is no problem with this size but for a short trip I used Plano 4.25 inch but the rod with 50 mm stripper is ~4inch that means there is .25 inch clearance, very dangerous when crossing the boarder, they do not care about your rod and could damaged and that’s why I am thinking to reduce the guide size.

 

ZAFisher, 

 

I would like to know the difference between MN and KW guides. 

I like the 30 as a stripper guide in your suggestion KW 30H 25 20 12 10 10 10 10 10 #10 tip but can I use a big Daiwa Emblem reel with it? 

I like your second option with 40 30 25 20 16 and a 16 tip cause I have all of them and most cost effective. Perhaps I will do it this way for now and on the same time will look for better guides to replace them in the future.

 

Thank you both for your time and helping me with this rod.

Edited by Mahigo
spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 mins ago, Mahigo said:

I like the 30 as a stripper guide in your suggestion KW 30H 25 20 12 10 10 10 10 10 #10 tip but can I use a big Daiwa Emblem reel with it?

Yes you can without issue.

I mentioned it is a 30H same total height as a 40L.

I use a 14k sized Ultegra on a 13'6 2-6oz with a KL25H stripper guide......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 mins ago, ZAFisher said:

Yes you can without issue.

I mentioned it is a 30H same total height as a 40L.

I use a 14k sized Ultegra on a 13'6 2-6oz with a KL25H stripper guide......

I will be happy with the 40 stripper it will gives me over 1” clearance ...

In this situation I can use my small Plano rod case with 2 rod. 

Always worry about the boarder when they are puling the rod out for inspection.

I am not going for any fishing trip soon cause of the Covid19 so I will be looking for the guides.

What do you think the guides should be single or double foot? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

9 hours ago, Mahigo said:

I will be happy with the 40 stripper it will gives me over 1” clearance ...

In this situation I can use my small Plano rod case with 2 rod. 

Always worry about the boarder when they are puling the rod out for inspection.

I am not going for any fishing trip soon cause of the Covid19 so I will be looking for the guides.

What do you think the guides should be single or double foot? 

 

Given the fact that you are traveling and rods will possibly be pulled out of the tube by folks that dont really care or understand - double foot. And carry some spares with you when travelling to far-flung places

Edited by ZAFisher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

On 11/21/2020 at 10:06 AM, ZAFisher said:

Brand new guides?  I would never suggest MN's over KW.

KW 30H 25 20 12 10 10 10 10 10 #10 tip

To Use what you have:with a 5 guide set up (not ideal)

40 30 25 20 16 and a 16 tip top (close to a typical UK "40" carp layout)

Brandon:

 

My recommendation of MN's was to facilitate Mahigo reaching his goal of a smaller stripping guide while retaining the original finish of the rod by placing the new guides in the same place as the original.  You NGC layout using KW guides would no doubt give better performance than my proposed COF layout, but would be unlikely to place a single guide in an original position.  Heaven knows I have converted all of my ancient All Star, St. Croix Premier and St. Croix Ben Doer rods to NGC layouts, but this involved stripping not only the guides, but the original finish of the entire blank.  In some cases I left the blank as a ultra fine wet sanded graphite, and in others I refinished the blank by mixing testors model paint into Flex-Coat Light UV epoxy.

 

Regarding BMNAG vice KW guides - all of my dual function competition/fishing  ZZiplex. CTS and Century Blanks were rung by me using the original Fuji NGC layout with BMNAG guides, as they were the state of the art back then, and we, as you are well aware, were not allowed to use Braid on the competition field.  Since retiring from completion, I have acquired a Century Stealth 11ft, FSC predator 11ft, and Shimano Tiralejo's in 12, 11 and 10.5ft.  I honestly do not think that the KW guides provide for me any better casting performance than, for instance my Century Sling Shot HJ144 (shortened 3 inches at the butt) that is rung original Fuji NGC using BMNAG's, with which my measured field cast using a 3oz T-Hex, 30lb braid, 60 lb Braid Shock leader and an hourglass line lay VS250 was 351 ft.  Notice I said performance, as it is understood that a 12ft Tiralejo will cast a 4 oz Diamond jig farther than the 3oz T-hex on the HJ 144. But I am, conversely, confident that the Tiralejo, even with the Aero-Technium will not cast the 4oz Diamond jig as far as my 14ft Zziplex V-Max F2, rung original NGC using BMNAG's and a Daiwa Tournament Basia QD 45 (427ft)

 

Finally, I have never, even on COF rebuilds I did for my 81 year old fishing partner (you cannot give him an NGC layout rod), found a smooth straight line transition between 40, 30, 25, 20 and 16 guide sizes.  I have always used either used either 40, 30, 20 12 or 40, 25, 16 12.  There is just too small of a height difference between 25 and 20. .  

On 11/21/2020 at 1:29 PM, Mahigo said:

 

FlatWing, 

 

I am using 20lb or 30lb braid and 50lb to 60lb short mono leader just about ~2ft connecting with double uni or FG knots. Perhaps 100lb braid for a shock leader will be much easer too used. 

I wasn’t aware of the difference between SiC and Alconite inserts… always thought ceramic rings are all the same. Hmmm it looks like I need to study more. Thank you for the advice. If I go with your setup 40, 25, 16, 12, 12 and 12 tip guides will go on the same spots, is that correct? 

Possible to get this way 30, 25, 16, 12, 12 and 12 tip ????

 

Those of us like Brandon and myself are ardent believers that not using a shock leader with 20 or 30lb main line on a high powered rod such as yours is very dangerous, especially to those around you. The shock leader, regardless of it being braid, is of a significantly higher strength to absorb the impact load that occurs at the release point of the cast.  Accordingly, it should be a minimum of 6 turns around your spool, the length of the rod, and the length of the drop to the beginning of your terminal mono or floro terminal leader.  The rule for a mono shock leader (not useable on spinning with a braid main line for reasons I will not go into here, as it has been dealt with extensively on this board) is 10lbs test for every 1oz of payload.  I use, for braid shock leader, 16lbs test for every 1oz of payload, to compensate for the lack of stretch in the braid.

 

Yes, 40, 25, 16, 12 12 and 12 tip will go in the original spots.  I cannot say if 30, 25, 16 12, 12, 12 tip will.  I have not found 30, 25, 16 to give me a straight line transition, but it ultimately depends on the original guide spacing - you would need to tape them on, check the straight line transition off the edge of the spool (for COF only, vice the shaft of the spool for NGC), and then do your bend test to make sure the line follows the blank curve.

 

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Edited by FlatWing
typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, ZAFisher said:

 

Given the fact that you are traveling and rods will possibly be pulled out of the tube by folks that dont really care or understand - double foot. And carry some spares with you when travelling to far-flung places

ZAFisher, 

 

Ok will look for double foot guides. 

Always travel with at least 2 long rods and one travel and always carry some spare guides just in case happened some thing. 

So far I had one time to replaced the guide. 

 

Thank you,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, FlatWing said:

Brandon:

 

My recommendation of MN's was to facilitate Mahigo reaching his goal of a smaller stripping guide while retaining the original finish of the rod by placing the new guides in the same place as the original.  You NGC layout using KW guides would no doubt give better performance than my proposed COF layout, but would be unlikely to place a single guide in an original position.  Heaven knows I have converted all of my ancient All Star, St. Croix Premier and St. Croix Ben Doer rods to NGC layouts, but this involved stripping not only the guides, but the original finish of the entire blank.  In some cases I left the blank as a ultra fine wet sanded graphite, and in others I refinished the blank by mixing testors model paint into Flex-Coat Light UV epoxy.

 

Regarding BMNAG vice KW guides - all of my dual function competition/fishing  ZZiplex. CTS and Century Blanks were rung by me using the original Fuji NGC layout with BMNAG guides, as they were the state of the art back then, and we, as you are well aware, were not allowed to use Braid on the competition field.  Since retiring from completion, I have acquired a Century Stealth 11ft, FSC predator 11ft, and Shimano Tiralejo's in 12, 11 and 10.5ft.  I honestly do not think that the KW guides provide for me any better casting performance than, for instance my Century Sling Shot HJ144 (shortened 3 inches at the butt) that is rung original Fuji NGC using BMNAG's, with which my measured field cast using a 3oz T-Hex, 30lb braid, 60 lb Braid Shock leader and an hourglass line lay VS250 was 351 ft.  Notice I said performance, as it is understood that a 12ft Tiralejo will cast a 4 oz Diamond jig farther than the 3oz T-hex on the HJ 144. But I am, conversely, confident that the Tiralejo, even with the Aero-Technium will not cast the 4oz Diamond jig as far as my 14ft Zziplex V-Max F2, rung original NGC using BMNAG's and a Daiwa Tournament Basia QD 45 (427ft)

 

Finally, I have never, even on COF rebuilds I did for my 81 year old fishing partner (you cannot give him an NGC layout rod), found a smooth straight line transition between 40, 30, 25, 20 and 16 guide sizes.  I have always used either used either 40, 30, 20 12 or 40, 25, 16 12.  There is just too small of a height difference between 25 and 20. .  

Those of us like Brandon and myself are ardent believers that not using a shock leader with 20 or 30lb main line on a high powered rod such as yours is very dangerous, especially to those around you. The shock leader, regardless of it being braid, is of a significantly higher strength to absorb the impact load that occurs at the release point of the cast.  Accordingly, it should be a minimum of 6 turns around your spool, the length of the rod, and the length of the drop to the beginning of your terminal mono or floro terminal leader.  The rule for a mono shock leader (not useable on spinning with a braid main line for reasons I will not go into here, as it has been dealt with extensively on this board) is 10lbs test for every 1oz of payload.  I use, for braid shock leader, 16lbs test for every 1oz of payload, to compensate for the lack of stretch in the braid.

 

Yes, 40, 25, 16, 12 12 and 12 tip will go in the original spots.  I cannot say if 30, 25, 16 12, 12, 12 tip will.  I have not found 30, 25, 16 to give me a straight line transition, but it ultimately depends on the original guide spacing - you would need to tape them on, check the straight line transition off the edge of the spool (for COF only, vice the shaft of the spool for NGC), and then do your bend test to make sure the line follows the blank curve.

 

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

 

FlatWing, 

 

Good point with the original finish of the rod…. butt section and half way of the tip section cover with Century’s UVA resistant silk and.....

Stripper 50 and 40 guides are on the silk cover that means it’s better to use the same spot for those two. In the past I replaced one guide and was on the silk surface but this was done in Mexico, they did an excellent job but the new guide went on the same spot as the old one. 

 

I have some spare guides so next week I will do a bend test with the 40 and 30 stripper without touching the rest of the guides. 

I feel like I am going to replace all of them.

The good thing is I already learned a lot of things before I even started the modification.

 

As for the fishing line I am using 30lb braid and ~2ft mono leader for the toothy fish for up to 3lb lures but with heavier lures which happen not very often using 30lb braid for main line and 65lb braid as a leader, with more than 6 turns on the spool to begin with and cutting ~1ft every second day or so. To be honest I hate to feel the knot traveling the guides. For safety reason I am avoiding being on the right side of the fisherman cause I’m not sure what is on their line. I saw a few times someones lure flying on the beach, this is a very dangerous situation. 

 

Yes I will let you know my next step.

 

Thank you, 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I placed guides on the rod temporarly to see the bend of the rod under the pressure. 

I can’t go for distance casting cause it’s very cold here right now. 

I think it should work. 

Please let me know what do you think?

Thank you,

DSC00701.jpeg

DSC00702.jpeg

DSC00704.jpeg

DSC00703.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at your pictures, if it were my rod, I would use 40, 30, 20 in the original positions, followed by 5x 12 with a 12 tip top.  2 of the 12's would be in the original positions, and 3 of the 12's would be in new intermediate positions.  I would however, try a 16 and 4 12's in the bend test to see which gives you a better match to the curve of the blank.  I will be happy to look at the pictures again once you tape on the two options.

 

Regarding your concern with the shock leader knot going thru the guides, if you use either an FG knot or a hollow braid to main line splice as I describe in the linked post, you will not have a problem with knot travel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, FlatWing said:

Looking at your pictures, if it were my rod, I would use 40, 30, 20 in the original positions, followed by 5x 12 with a 12 tip top.  2 of the 12's would be in the original positions, and 3 of the 12's would be in new intermediate positions.  I would however, try a 16 and 4 12's in the bend test to see which gives you a better match to the curve of the blank.  I will be happy to look at the pictures again once you tape on the two options.

 

Regarding your concern with the shock leader knot going thru the guides, if you use either an FG knot or a hollow braid to main line splice as I describe in the linked post, you will not have a problem with knot travel.

Right now I have 40, 30, 25, 20 & 16 tip only and won’t be able to test it with your suggestion cause I do not have any 12 guide. 

Based on your suggestion I checked distance on the rod between 20 and 12 tip is 42” then spacing between 12’s will be ~8 3/8”. 

I will look on the internet if I can quickly buy Century or Kigan guides 5 x 12 and 12 tip. If it takes longer then I will look for all new K series or something I like it. 

Thank you for your time and helping me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you want to try this.  just be mindful to use a braid shockleader.
rod also becomes dual rung.   you can temporarily also use a casting reel if needed.

centurys usually have a flat spot on the spigot joint so never worry about the spacing on the butt and the guide after it.

the fma is not a full fledge carp rod that bends like a U shape.

its taper and bend is just like any of the century beach rods.

they only use the 5 guide arrangement at the factory to cater to the carp guys that like it like that.

 

more intermediates will utilize the rod more on line return. and less line slap going back out.

the blank power is just utilized better this way.

 

im not expert, but tape on guides and give it a cast.

 

 

Screenshot_20201125-150941_Chrome.jpg

Edited by ooeric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.