Visser Tear down - Write up - added Part 1 video 11/23

[scoobydoo]

Through the medium light pace that I put it through so far.  It's excellent.

Well......After getting past some of the issues.

 

 

For starters. This reel was purchased from Jandh Tackle, it arrived brand new in the box with the zip tie securing the rotor to the stem still in tact. 

The guys over there spooled it up with 40lb pandora... (a 100 yard break off required topping it off and reversing it by hand cranking the line back on)

With that out of the way.  I'll start with its line management performance. 

Spooled tight to the lip with 40lb pandora.....At no point did it get the sniffles..let alone sneeze a blob of braid through the guides.   It's line lay pattern may just be the best out of all the surf spinners (this may vary depending on line diameter and reel size)  

It stacks line  as evenly as any daiwa.  (Fuego through Saltiga. )  Which is excellent  

 

I prefer a bail.  And this one is as far as I've experienced.  BEST in class.

The bail wire...I can hang from it's so solid.  And the "ball joint/ piston" design is not accurate..it's open and accurately described as a telescope.  With enough of a nested clearance to avoid binding.  And the ball joint is foul proof.

 

The handle knob bearings are awful.  (I just got off the phone with a machinist friend of mine and he's machining me some Dupont Vespel Bushing/ journal bearings to replace at that location)

 

The line roller sealing seems adequate,  individual seals fit to the roller flanking it on either side that run on the pin outside the bearing.   though the bearing quality seems like it could be better.  

I have another vespel bearing being made up for that location as a test.

 

The clutch on mine is a bit iffy....no full failures...just sloppy. 

Just gonna order a boca clutch for now and see how that works....I must have imagined the hex housed one way bearing with metal leaf springs that doesn't have on off capability.....

 

The squeak appears to be located at the seal above the clutch which is well designed and tight.

I'll apply kryotox grease which should be a permanent fix (one commercial application is window gaskets so rubber rubbing on metal should be it's happy place...the krytox film is almost friggin permanent.)

 

The main shaft seal is perfect...pull out the immaculately machined shaft and you hear a pop due to the suction.  

The main shaft is machined to different diameters...heaviest where it traverses the  pinion and exposed to the leverage.  Slighter narrower internally and externally for clearance and weight reduction.  5mm and 6mm I believe aluminum.  I don't see titanium mentioned.  Too light to be stainless.

 

I like the dual O ring security method to retain the spool support pin (an oversight I pointed out in the initial run of the penn torque 1 that was later addressed)

 

The Main gear is like stainless jewelry as is the pinion.  The teeth look like a row of houses.  with an insane amount of material to support the gorilla on the handle.

The axel ends are polished / finished smooth with only fine abrasions present.  Which won't prematurely wear the seals....

NO additional collars like on the VS VR reels at the handle location...Just 1 piece of stainless on both sides.  Tightly mated to the heavy seals.

 

Hell the oscilation gear is a machined work of art as well.  Bearing supported with a teflon washer below.

 

The traverse block appears to be machined and hard anodized aluminum.

 

ALl the machined pieces are top notch......perfection.  

The fit and finish is beautiful.  TOP TIER

 

The drag is smooth and responsive.  With an excellent range and easy to adjust.

It apears to be a dual drag design...with 2 separated drag stacks consisting of multiple washers..though I could be wrong about what's int he top.  The seals aren't simple o rings.  They are similar in nature to the handle shaft seals.

 

The issues I experienced early one are mainly bearing issues easily resolved (albeit not what I want to see in a reel at any price)

 

I hate the wiffle ball knob.

Although I love how it's sealed from the top with a rubber / silicon cap and o ring at the base.

 

The handle length feels right.  Something I feel is off on some reels.

 

Even the drag knob itself is easily serviceable.  With components that can only come out or go back in 1 way as it's all keyed together.  With a heavy gauge spring for a progressive ramp up and no binding. 

 

HEAD SCRATCHERS................

I understand ball bearings can take extreme loads....Softies like us human beings usually can't damage them.  With that said.  The bearings are a bit smaller in some locations where I'm accustomed to seeing larger.....At Least at first glance.  Though I like the open shieldless nature of some which is great for service and lubrication.

 

Why bearings in the handle knob.....bushings would have been fine

 

A single line roller bearing.......simple yeah.  adequate yeah..but an overbuilt tank I'd prefer a spaced pair to distrubute the load.  The amount of braid wax residue build up makes me wonder if it bound up.

 

The support of the base of the main shaft as it oscillates is simpler than past designs.   It appears to run on the annodizing/  metal on metal..no bearings or polymers.  (I'll add some krytox and ws2 tungstendisulfide mix to protect it....(ws2 lubricates metal on metal gun parts so I'm sure it can only help....I've used it on gears and rub parts for 4 years now and it has never caused an issue.

 

The knob can go to hell.

 

There appear to be indexting marks on the pinion's machining...they don't appear to be errant...But they are there...I don't think they have any impact or even contact the main gear...haven't really looked.  They are at the peak of  a few of the teeth.  Never saw that in a pinion.  They don't effect the structural strength.  They're just there.

 

Can't figure out why the drag was silent and then started functioning normally.

 

With everything being so easily serviceable....why is getting the top section of the drag stack out so perplexing....

 

 

What I can't tell so far.

How will it handle long term retrieving under heavy constant loads....I didn't sea any wear and I fished it in 3kt current....Would canal jigging cause wear at the shaft support (the metal on metal)

 

 

That's all I got so far...........................

If quality control eventually matches the design.......I can't see a reason to buy a VS over this....

This thing has potential......like...SERIOUS POTENTIAL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 11:39 PM by scoobydoo

[Evil-Bay]

I can't wait to see your video on this.

[Callmefish]

I apparently couldn’t wait to see you video I just bought one, can you fix the slop in the “power handel” bearing. you know thing that looks like it belings on a kitchen aid mixer. I thought my handel was sloppy bit it was the knob

[ThirstyOwl III]

That’s a beautiful looking main gear. 

[Evil-Bay]

Is that the same grease found in VS?

[scoobydoo]

20 mins ago, Evil-Bay said:

Is that the same grease found in VS?

I don't believe so....VS is khaki in color this has some blue tint to it...

[levari]

17 hours ago, scoobydoo said:

Anyone know how to remove the top drag stack?

The bottom one was simple.  The top side is in pretty good...

 

Pretty nice reel.

 

can't tell the quality of the clutch...Seems a bit ho hum....

Bearings are physically smaller than most in it's size category.

 

Other than that it seems brilliant.

 

I wish i could get at the clutch...seems press fit like the others and I don't have a jig made up.

 

 

What’s the verdict? Worth the money or not?

[scoobydoo]

16 hours ago, levari said:

What’s the verdict? Worth the money or not?

Through the medium light pace that I put it through so far.  It's excellent.

Manages line beautifully. 

 

I prefer a bail.  And this one is as far as I've experienced.  BEST in class.

The bail wire...I can hang from it's so solid.  And the "ball joint/ piston" design is not accurate..it's open and accurately described as a telescope.  With enough of a nested clearance to avoid binding.  And the ball joint is foul proof.

 

The handle knob bearings are awful.  (I just got off the phone with a machinist friend of mine and he's machining me some Dupont Vespel Bushing/ journal bearings to replace at that location)

 

The line roller sealing seems adequate,  individual seals fit to the roller flanking it on either side that run on the pin outside the bearing.   though the bearing quality seems like it could be better.  

I have another vespel bearing being made up for that location as a test.

 

The clutch on mine is a bit iffy....no full failures...just sloppy. 

Just gonna order a boca clutch for now and see how that works....I must have imagined the hex housed one way bearing with metal leaf springs that doesn't have on off capability.....

 

The squeak appears to be located at the seal above the clutch which is well designed and tight.

I'll apply kryotox grease which should be a permanent fix (one commercial application is window gaskets so rubber rubbing on metal should be it's happy place...the krytox film is almost friggin permanent.)

 

The main shaft seal is perfect...pull out the immaculately machined shaft and you hear a pop due to the suction.  

The main shaft is machined to different diameters...heaviest where it traverses the  pinion and exposed to the leverage.  Slighter narrower internally and externally for clearance and weight reduction.  5mm and 6mm I believe aluminum.  I don't see titanium mentioned.  Too light to be stainless.

 

I like the dual O ring security method to retain the spool support pin (an oversight I pointed out in the initial run of the penn torque 1 that was later addressed)

 

The Main gear is like stainless jewelry as is the pinion.  The teeth look like a row of houses.  with an insane amount of material to support the gorilla on the handle.

The axel ends are polished / finished smooth with only fine abrasions present.  Which won't prematurely wear the seals....

NO additional collars like on the VS VR reels at the handle location...Just 1 piece of stainless on both sides.  Tightly mated to the heavy seals.

 

Hell the oscilation gear is a machined work of art as well.  Bearing supported with a teflon washer below.

 

The traverse block appears to be machined and hard anodized aluminum.

 

ALl the machined pieces are top notch......perfection.  

The fit and finish is beautiful.  TOP TIER

 

The drag is smooth and responsive.  With an excellent range and easy to adjust.

It apears to be a dual drag design...with 2 separated drag stacks consisting of multiple washers..though I could be wrong about what's int he top.  The seals aren't simple o rings.  They are similar in nature to the handle shaft seals.

 

The issues I experienced early one are mainly bearing issues easily resolved (albeit not what I want to see in a reel at any price)

 

I hate the wiffle ball knob.

Although I love how it's sealed from the top with a rubber / silicon cap and o ring at the base.

 

The handle length feels right.  Something I feel is off on some reels.

 

Even the drag knob itself is easily serviceable.  With components that can only come out or go back in 1 way as it's all keyed together.  With a heavy gauge spring for a progressive ramp up and no binding. 

 

HEAD SCRATCHERS................

I understand ball bearings can take extreme loads....Softies like us human beings usually can't damage them.  With that said.  The bearings are a bit smaller in some locations where I'm accustomed to seeing larger.....At Least at first glance.  Though I like the open shieldless nature of some which is great for service and lubrication.

 

Why bearings in the handle knob.....bushings would have been fine

 

A single line roller bearing.......simple yeah.  adequate yeah..but an overbuilt tank I'd prefer a spaced pair to distrubute the load.  The amount of braid wax residue build up makes me wonder if it bound up.

 

The support of the base of the main shaft as it oscillates is simpler than past designs.   It appears to run on the annodizing/  metal on metal..no bearings or polymers.  (I'll add some krytox and ws2 tungstendisulfide mix to protect it....(ws2 lubricates metal on metal gun parts so I'm sure it can only help....I've used it on gears and rub parts for 4 years now and it has never caused an issue.

 

The knob can go to hell.

 

There appear to be indexting marks on the pinion's machining...they don't appear to be errant...But they are there...I don't think they have any impact or even contact the main gear...haven't really looked.  They are at the peak of  a few of the teeth.  Never saw that in a pinion.  They don't effect the structural strength.  They're just there.

 

Can't figure out why the drag was silent and then started functioning normally.

 

With everything being so easily serviceable....why is getting the top section of the drag stack out so perplexing....

 

 

What I can't tell so far.

How will it handle long term retrieving udner heavy constant loads....I didn't sea any wear and I fished it in 3kt current....Would canal jigging cause wear at the shaft support (the metal on metal)

 

 

That's all I got so far...........................

If quality control eventually matches the design.......I can't see a reason to buy a VS over this....

This thing has potential......like...SERIOUS POTENTIAL.

 

Levari...If you get a good one....I think you'll like it (except the knob)  

If you get a bad one....at least you'll know what to expect  

 

Oh..and the post you quoted still had my initial remark about the press fit clutch.....It's easily serviceable...I started a separate thread on it.

Edited November 21 by scoobydoo

[Goldy]

On 11/19/2020 at 2:07 PM, scoobydoo said:

Through the medium light pace that I put it through so far.  It's excellent.

Well......After getting past some of the issues.

 

 

For starters.  It manages line beautifully. 

Spooled tight to the lip with 40lb pandora.....At no point did it get the sniffles..let alone sneeze a blob of braid through the guides.   It's line lay pattern may just be the best out of all the surf spinners (this may vary depending on line diameter and reel size)  

It stacks line  as evenly as any daiwa.  (Fuego through Saltiga. )  Which is excellent  

 

I prefer a bail.  And this one is as far as I've experienced.  BEST in class.

The bail wire...I can hang from it's so solid.  And the "ball joint/ piston" design is not accurate..it's open and accurately described as a telescope.  With enough of a nested clearance to avoid binding.  And the ball joint is foul proof.

 

The handle knob bearings are awful.  (I just got off the phone with a machinist friend of mine and he's machining me some Dupont Vespel Bushing/ journal bearings to replace at that location)

 

The line roller sealing seems adequate,  individual seals fit to the roller flanking it on either side that run on the pin outside the bearing.   though the bearing quality seems like it could be better.  

I have another vespel bearing being made up for that location as a test.

 

The clutch on mine is a bit iffy....no full failures...just sloppy. 

Just gonna order a boca clutch for now and see how that works....I must have imagined the hex housed one way bearing with metal leaf springs that doesn't have on off capability.....

 

The squeak appears to be located at the seal above the clutch which is well designed and tight.

I'll apply kryotox grease which should be a permanent fix (one commercial application is window gaskets so rubber rubbing on metal should be it's happy place...the krytox film is almost friggin permanent.)

 

The main shaft seal is perfect...pull out the immaculately machined shaft and you hear a pop due to the suction.  

The main shaft is machined to different diameters...heaviest where it traverses the  pinion and exposed to the leverage.  Slighter narrower internally and externally for clearance and weight reduction.  5mm and 6mm I believe aluminum.  I don't see titanium mentioned.  Too light to be stainless.

 

I like the dual O ring security method to retain the spool support pin (an oversight I pointed out in the initial run of the penn torque 1 that was later addressed)

 

The Main gear is like stainless jewelry as is the pinion.  The teeth look like a row of houses.  with an insane amount of material to support the gorilla on the handle.

The axel ends are polished / finished smooth with only fine abrasions present.  Which won't prematurely wear the seals....

NO additional collars like on the VS VR reels at the handle location...Just 1 piece of stainless on both sides.  Tightly mated to the heavy seals.

 

Hell the oscilation gear is a machined work of art as well.  Bearing supported with a teflon washer below.

 

The traverse block appears to be machined and hard anodized aluminum.

 

ALl the machined pieces are top notch......perfection.  

The fit and finish is beautiful.  TOP TIER

 

The drag is smooth and responsive.  With an excellent range and easy to adjust.

It apears to be a dual drag design...with 2 separated drag stacks consisting of multiple washers..though I could be wrong about what's int he top.  The seals aren't simple o rings.  They are similar in nature to the handle shaft seals.

 

The issues I experienced early one are mainly bearing issues easily resolved (albeit not what I want to see in a reel at any price)

 

I hate the wiffle ball knob.

Although I love how it's sealed from the top with a rubber / silicon cap and o ring at the base.

 

The handle length feels right.  Something I feel is off on some reels.

 

Even the drag knob itself is easily serviceable.  With components that can only come out or go back in 1 way as it's all keyed together.  With a heavy gauge spring for a progressive ramp up and no binding. 

 

HEAD SCRATCHERS................

I understand ball bearings can take extreme loads....Softies like us human beings usually can't damage them.  With that said.  The bearings are a bit smaller in some locations where I'm accustomed to seeing larger.....At Least at first glance.  Though I like the open shieldless nature of some which is great for service and lubrication.

 

Why bearings in the handle knob.....bushings would have been fine

 

A single line roller bearing.......simple yeah.  adequate yeah..but an overbuilt tank I'd prefer a spaced pair to distrubute the load.  The amount of braid wax residue build up makes me wonder if it bound up.

 

The support of the base of the main shaft as it oscillates is simpler than past designs.   It appears to run on the annodizing/  metal on metal..no bearings or polymers.  (I'll add some krytox and ws2 tungstendisulfide mix to protect it....(ws2 lubricates metal on metal gun parts so I'm sure it can only help....I've used it on gears and rub parts for 4 years now and it has never caused an issue.

 

The knob can go to hell.

 

There appear to be indexting marks on the pinion's machining...they don't appear to be errant...But they are there...I don't think they have any impact or even contact the main gear...haven't really looked.  They are at the peak of  a few of the teeth.  Never saw that in a pinion.  They don't effect the structural strength.  They're just there.

 

Can't figure out why the drag was silent and then started functioning normally.

 

With everything being so easily serviceable....why is getting the top section of the drag stack out so perplexing....

 

 

What I can't tell so far.

How will it handle long term retrieving under heavy constant loads....I didn't sea any wear and I fished it in 3kt current....Would canal jigging cause wear at the shaft support (the metal on metal)

 

 

That's all I got so far...........................

If quality control eventually matches the design.......I can't see a reason to buy a VS over this....

This thing has potential......like...SERIOUS POTENTIAL.

 

 

 

 

Scoob. Is it me or is the text above on really light grey font and hard to read?

[levari]

6 hours ago, scoobydoo said:

Through the medium light pace that I put it through so far.  It's excellent.

Manages line beautifully. 

 

I prefer a bail.  And this one is as far as I've experienced.  BEST in class.

The bail wire...I can hang from it's so solid.  And the "ball joint/ piston" design is not accurate..it's open and accurately described as a telescope.  With enough of a nested clearance to avoid binding.  And the ball joint is foul proof.

 

The handle knob bearings are awful.  (I just got off the phone with a machinist friend of mine and he's machining me some Dupont Vespel Bushing/ journal bearings to replace at that location)

 

The line roller sealing seems adequate,  individual seals fit to the roller flanking it on either side that run on the pin outside the bearing.   though the bearing quality seems like it could be better.  

I have another vespel bearing being made up for that location as a test.

 

The clutch on mine is a bit iffy....no full failures...just sloppy. 

Just gonna order a boca clutch for now and see how that works....I must have imagined the hex housed one way bearing with metal leaf springs that doesn't have on off capability.....

 

The squeak appears to be located at the seal above the clutch which is well designed and tight.

I'll apply kryotox grease which should be a permanent fix (one commercial application is window gaskets so rubber rubbing on metal should be it's happy place...the krytox film is almost friggin permanent.)

 

The main shaft seal is perfect...pull out the immaculately machined shaft and you hear a pop due to the suction.  

The main shaft is machined to different diameters...heaviest where it traverses the  pinion and exposed to the leverage.  Slighter narrower internally and externally for clearance and weight reduction.  5mm and 6mm I believe aluminum.  I don't see titanium mentioned.  Too light to be stainless.

 

I like the dual O ring security method to retain the spool support pin (an oversight I pointed out in the initial run of the penn torque 1 that was later addressed)

 

The Main gear is like stainless jewelry as is the pinion.  The teeth look like a row of houses.  with an insane amount of material to support the gorilla on the handle.

The axel ends are polished / finished smooth with only fine abrasions present.  Which won't prematurely wear the seals....

NO additional collars like on the VS VR reels at the handle location...Just 1 piece of stainless on both sides.  Tightly mated to the heavy seals.

 

Hell the oscilation gear is a machined work of art as well.  Bearing supported with a teflon washer below.

 

The traverse block appears to be machined and hard anodized aluminum.

 

ALl the machined pieces are top notch......perfection.  

The fit and finish is beautiful.  TOP TIER

 

The drag is smooth and responsive.  With an excellent range and easy to adjust.

It apears to be a dual drag design...with 2 separated drag stacks consisting of multiple washers..though I could be wrong about what's int he top.  The seals aren't simple o rings.  They are similar in nature to the handle shaft seals.

 

The issues I experienced early one are mainly bearing issues easily resolved (albeit not what I want to see in a reel at any price)

 

I hate the wiffle ball knob.

Although I love how it's sealed from the top with a rubber / silicon cap and o ring at the base.

 

The handle length feels right.  Something I feel is off on some reels.

 

Even the drag knob itself is easily serviceable.  With components that can only come out or go back in 1 way as it's all keyed together.  With a heavy gauge spring for a progressive ramp up and no binding. 

 

HEAD SCRATCHERS................

I understand ball bearings can take extreme loads....Softies like us human beings usually can't damage them.  With that said.  The bearings are a bit smaller in some locations where I'm accustomed to seeing larger.....At Least at first glance.  Though I like the open shieldless nature of some which is great for service and lubrication.

 

Why bearings in the handle knob.....bushings would have been fine

 

A single line roller bearing.......simple yeah.  adequate yeah..but an overbuilt tank I'd prefer a spaced pair to distrubute the load.  The amount of braid wax residue build up makes me wonder if it bound up.

 

The support of the base of the main shaft as it oscillates is simpler than past designs.   It appears to run on the annodizing/  metal on metal..no bearings or polymers.  (I'll add some krytox and ws2 tungstendisulfide mix to protect it....(ws2 lubricates metal on metal gun parts so I'm sure it can only help....I've used it on gears and rub parts for 4 years now and it has never caused an issue.

 

The knob can go to hell.

 

There appear to be indexting marks on the pinion's machining...they don't appear to be errant...But they are there...I don't think they have any impact or even contact the main gear...haven't really looked.  They are at the peak of  a few of the teeth.  Never saw that in a pinion.  They don't effect the structural strength.  They're just there.

 

Can't figure out why the drag was silent and then started functioning normally.

 

With everything being so easily serviceable....why is getting the top section of the drag stack out so perplexing....

 

 

What I can't tell so far.

How will it handle long term retrieving udner heavy constant loads....I didn't sea any wear and I fished it in 3kt current....Would canal jigging cause wear at the shaft support (the metal on metal)

 

 

That's all I got so far...........................

If quality control eventually matches the design.......I can't see a reason to buy a VS over this....

This thing has potential......like...SERIOUS POTENTIAL.

 

Levari...If you get a good one....I think you'll like it (except the knob)  

If you get a bad one....at least you'll know what to expect  

 

Oh..and the post you quoted still had my initial remark about the press fit clutch.....It's easily serviceable...I started a separate thread on it.

Thanks for the thorough report. Any plans to run some underwater tests?

[scoobydoo]

1 hour ago, levari said:

Thanks for the thorough report. Any plans to run some underwater tests?

I'll do a "formal" timed bucket test at some point.

 

Thus far it's held up fine to the intentional dunk and crank.   

[levari]

48 mins ago, scoobydoo said:

I'll do a "formal" timed bucket test at some point.

 

Thus far it's held up fine to the intentional dunk and crank.   

That’s what I meant, dunk and crank..

[ThirstyOwl III]

Thanks for the seriously in-depth analysis. 
 

Quick question as I don’t think I will have one in hand before I purchase.

 

-how smooth does it feel when you crank? Does it have that “Yes it’s waterproof, but I can’t wait to have my Stradic back in my hands” feel? or does it feel like the VR? 
 

-do the knob bearings feel like the gomexus knob bearings? 
 

-that main gear. It really looks amazing. Best you have seen? 
 

thanks scoob.

Edited November 21 by ThirstyOwl III

[C.Robin]

Seems a lot more positive than your initial impression, thank you for the write up. I'll definitely wait a bit to see if they can sort out the QC issues, but maybe before next fall run I'll grab one.

[scoobydoo]

1 hour ago, ThirstyOwl III said:

Thanks for the seriously in-depth analysis. 
 

Quick question as I don’t think I will have one in hand before I purchase.

 

-how smooth does it feel when you crank? Does it have that “Yes it’s waterproof, but I can’t wait to have my Stradic back in my hands” feel? or does it feel like the VR? 
 

-do the knob bearings feel like the gomexus knob bearings? 
 

-that main gear. It really looks amazing. Best you have seen? 
 

thanks scoob.

You're welcome,

Initially it was exactly that.  Very sluggish, very restricted handle rotation..  After the first outing the sensation of fighting the reel was gone.

 

It's not a - insert every other spinning reel not designed for surf use.  

 

It's more restricted than a slammer and saragossa sw.  But that comes with the territory. 

If you put time on a VS or ZB you wouldn't bat an eye. Though out of the box you'd likely consider it tighter.  (other reels may or may not be as tight when new...that may vary)

 

One thing you'd notice is the lack of "coffee grinder" resonance due to the gears.  Which is present on VS and ZB to an extent.  Feels like a penn torque/ slammer in the warm and fuzzies department.  I assume it will run in and get better to an extent with more use.

 

In regards to the knob bearings.   One bearing is defective.  Pretty crunchy on the bearing check tool with no load.  The other feels like a gomexus bearing in quality.  I bought 20 cheap Traxxas bearings awhile ago for like 20 bucks.  5 were defective just like this.  I'm excited to pop in the Dupont vespel bearings (I put on in the tranx 500 at the handle shaft base so it is a 200lb gorilla proof material....If he can make them efficiently and they work...I'm gonna try to convince him to sell them for $80 or $90 for the set of 3  it's one of the most expensive materials you can use and has the lowest coefficient of friction of any journal bearing/ bushing material....look at the cost of what scraps go for on ebay 600$ for a 9" rod)

 

It's the best main gear I've seen in person.  I haven't seen the new Saltiga or Makaira in person.

 

Edited November 21 by scoobydoo