Bait Tailer

Rigged eels for 2021 circle hook regulations

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4 mins ago, Bait Tailer said:

 

 

Not looking to upset anyone. I don't know either of you so assume you're directing your frustration at other imaginary surfcasters on SOL. 

 

I love the soft circle rig.  Used it for tarpon in the keys with my uncle in 2010 and it's by far my favorite way to fish weightless soft plastics.  Gives you the movement of the entire length of the bait and allows a more natural drift and swing.  I honestly hate the McKenna rig.  Doesn't suit any of my spots.  And after sticking an owner beast hook straight through the brain of a small slot fish, I've fished the soft circle rig exclusively. 

 

Don't see why it wouldn't work for rigged eels. 

 

Back on topic. Just found some ballyhoo o-ring and mullet dredging pin rig methods that gave me some ideas for rigging with weight. 

 

 

Hay if the shoe fits wear it !!!! I'm not pointing any fingers.. Everyone proclaims to be righteous. Actions speak loader than words.. Lets all follow the rules even the new one...  

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3 hours ago, Bait Tailer said:

 

 

Not looking to upset anyone. I don't know either of you so assume you're directing your frustration at other imaginary surfcasters on SOL. 

 

I love the soft circle rig.  Used it for tarpon in the keys with my uncle in 2010 and it's by far my favorite way to fish weightless soft plastics.  Gives you the movement of the entire length of the bait and allows a more natural drift and swing.  I honestly hate the McKenna rig.  Doesn't suit any of my spots.  And after sticking an owner beast hook straight through the brain of a small slot fish, I've fished the soft circle rig exclusively. 

 

Don't see why it wouldn't work for rigged eels. 

 

Back on topic. Just found some ballyhoo o-ring and mullet dredging pin rig methods that gave me some ideas for rigging with weight. 

 

 

No frustration here with surfcasters, I'm only concerned with the ill informed, overbearing committees and politicians and the ridiculous laws they try to impose. If a surfcaster wants to rig up with circles that's of course their prerogative, regardless of whether it makes any sense in the long run.

 

The fact is these laws are ineffectual and in the end only serve to further curtail a niche hobby already effected by overregulation, shoreline access restrictions, etc. If these politicians had any real interest in protecting the species they would be better served looking into the inshore commercial fishing industry and the destruction of ecosystems specifically the breeding grounds along the coast. Of course money talks and they (the politicians) are far more comfortable regulating the little guy so that at the end of the day they can stand in front of the camera and pretend that they do in fact care.....

 

I for one doubt I'll ever rig an eel with a circle. How someone else chooses to fish is entirely up to them.

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It also hopefully saves some striped bass from every other person who walks down to the shore or steps on a boat and casts out a bait and gets distracted. 

 

Thats a small victory.  I'm willing adjust my practices to support it and hope it's enforced. 

 

Edited by Bait Tailer

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6 hours ago, Bait Tailer said:

It also hopefully saves some striped bass from every other person who walks down to the shore or steps on a boat and casts out a bait and gets distracted. 

 

Thats a small victory.  I'm willing adjust my practices to support it and hope it's enforced. 

 

Yes but for me to respect a law and for a law to exist in the first place there needs to be room for nuance and a thorough understanding of the subject by the law makers and the enforcers. This is clearly not the case here.

Regardless of what you think about the regulation it at least makes sense to enforce circles when drifting cut chunk bait, living lining a baitfish or floating a live eel. Circles are effective and will do the most good in these situations, especially when dealing with the hypothetical distracted angler. Now when it comes to enforcing the use of circles in a rigged eel the law is both ineffective and overbearing not to mention hypocritical. The angler fishing a rigged eel is not casting a bait, sitting back, popping a beer and forgetting their line. They are casting, reeling, paying attention to their offering and striking hard and fast when a fish hits.

 

Is there the chance that the occasional fish becomes gut hooked? Yes of course, this of course is at it's route a blood sport and we have to be able to accept a certain amount of mortality in catch and release. But a rigged eel is no more damaging than than a plug, jig or for that matter their plastic counterparts the soft plastic eel or rigged sluggo. To regulate this suggests that those in power don't understand this and it also sets the groundwork for the over regulation and destruction of this hobby. By the definition of this law a number of tactics are effectively legally obsolete. Rigged eels, tin/wobbleheads and eels, tube and worm trolling, dressing a bucktail with a live eel or baitfish, etc. None of these techniques will be allowed under the definition of the law. Including these techniques in the regulation will greatly curtail the options of the angler while not saving bass from the previously mentioned distracted angler.

 

My main concern is where we go from here. When down the road these politicians see that their regulation has not in fact greatly impacted striped bass mortality rates they will almost certainly continue to regulate the recreational abilities of the average angler while also ignoring the route causes, major commertail fishing operations and the destruction of coastal habits. If the law sees fit to regulate into ineffectuality a whole litany of bait techniques now I don't see it as unthinkable that down the road more and more techniques may come to the chopping block. What will we be saying when they eventually decide that all techniques, bait or artificial require the use of circle hooks? 

 

Edited by Sandbar1

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3 hours ago, Sandbar1 said:

Yes but for me to respect a law and for a law to exist in the first place there needs to be room for nuance and a thorough understanding of the subject by the law makers and the enforcers. This is clearly not the case here.

Regardless of what you think about the regulation it at least makes sense to enforce circles when drifting cut chunk bait, living lining a baitfish or floating a live eel. Circles are effective and will do the most good in these situations, especially when dealing with the hypothetical distracted angler. Now when it comes to enforcing the use of circles in a rigged eel the law is both ineffective and overbearing not to mention hypocritical. The angler fishing a rigged eel is not casting a bait, sitting back, popping a beer and forgetting their line. They are casting, reeling, paying attention to their offering and striking hard and fast when a fish hits.

 

Is there the chance that the occasional fish becomes gut hooked? Yes of course, this of course is at it's route a blood sport and we have to be able to accept a certain amount of mortality in catch and release. But a rigged eel is no more damaging than than a plug, jig or for that matter their plastic counterparts the soft plastic eel or rigged sluggo. To regulate this suggests that those in power don't understand this and it also sets the groundwork for the over regulation and destruction of this hobby. By the definition of this law a number of tactics are effectively legally obsolete. Rigged eels, tin/wobbleheads and eels, tube and worm trolling, dressing a bucktail with a live eel or baitfish, etc. None of these techniques will be allowed under the definition of the law. Incluging these techniques in the regulation will greatly curtail the options of the angler while not saving bass from the previously mentioned distracted angler.

 

My main concern is where we go from here. When down the road these politicians see that their regulation has not in fact greatly impacted striped bass mortality rates they will almost certainly continue to regulate the recreational abilities of the average angler while also ignoring the route causes, major commertail fishing operations and the destruction of coastal habits. If the law sees fit to regulate into ineffectuality a whole litany of bait techniques now I don't see it as unthinkable that down the road more and more techniques may come to the chopping block. What will we be saying when they eventually decide that all techniques, bait or artificial require the use of circle hooks? 

 

Great answer.  I suspect far more damage will be done to striped bass from subsistence fishermen fishing for scup with J hooks in one week than all the rigged eel surf casters along the coast all season. 

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On 11/19/2020 at 11:58 PM, flylikabird said:

O.k.  .....why can't your re-orient the hook the other way.....big fish will slam a hook anyway your set it up!

While you can, and of course everything works why fight gravity when you can use it to your advantage?

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9 hours ago, Sandbar1 said:

Yes but for me to respect a law and for a law to exist in the first place there needs to be room for nuance and a thorough understanding of the subject by the law makers and the enforcers. This is clearly not the case here.

Regardless of what you think about the regulation it at least makes sense to enforce circles when drifting cut chunk bait, living lining a baitfish or floating a live eel. Circles are effective and will do the most good in these situations, especially when dealing with the hypothetical distracted angler. Now when it comes to enforcing the use of circles in a rigged eel the law is both ineffective and overbearing not to mention hypocritical. The angler fishing a rigged eel is not casting a bait, sitting back, popping a beer and forgetting their line. They are casting, reeling, paying attention to their offering and striking hard and fast when a fish hits.

 

Is there the chance that the occasional fish becomes gut hooked? Yes of course, this of course is at it's route a blood sport and we have to be able to accept a certain amount of mortality in catch and release. But a rigged eel is no more damaging than than a plug, jig or for that matter their plastic counterparts the soft plastic eel or rigged sluggo. To regulate this suggests that those in power don't understand this and it also sets the groundwork for the over regulation and destruction of this hobby. By the definition of this law a number of tactics are effectively legally obsolete. Rigged eels, tin/wobbleheads and eels, tube and worm trolling, dressing a bucktail with a live eel or baitfish, etc. None of these techniques will be allowed under the definition of the law. Including these techniques in the regulation will greatly curtail the options of the angler while not saving bass from the previously mentioned distracted angler.

 

My main concern is where we go from here. When down the road these politicians see that their regulation has not in fact greatly impacted striped bass mortality rates they will almost certainly continue to regulate the recreational abilities of the average angler while also ignoring the route causes, major commertail fishing operations and the destruction of coastal habits. If the law sees fit to regulate into ineffectuality a whole litany of bait techniques now I don't see it as unthinkable that down the road more and more techniques may come to the chopping block. What will we be saying when they eventually decide that all techniques, bait or artificial require the use of circle hooks? 

 

All excellent points and need to say I agree.  

 

Also have some sympathy for those writing these regulations.   I can't imagine an enforceable clear nuanced definition of bait, lure and jig that applies to all the different striper techniques of rec shore, rec boat, for hire and party boat anglers.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Bait Tailer said:

All excellent points and need to say I agree.  

 

Also have some sympathy for those writing these regulations.   I can't imagine an enforceable clear nuanced definition of bait, lure and jig that applies to all the different striper techniques of rec shore, rec boat, for hire and party boat anglers.

 

 

 

This is a big part of why the regulation ended up the way it did.  The ASMFC has a Law Enforcement Committee that advises on the enforceability of proposed management measures.  That committee provided a very strong recommendation that no exceptions to the circle hook rule be permitted, arguing that every exception could provide loopholes that will impact the enforceability of the law.

 

As far as others' comments about the circle hook rule being devised by "politicians," nothing can be farther from the truth.  The decision to adopt a rule that allowed for no exceptions for rigged eels or anything else was made by the ASMFC's Atlantic Striped Bass Management Bolard, which is composed of state fishery managers, legislative appointees, and governors' appointees.  The appointees, or their proxies, are, for the most part, recreational and commercial fishermen, who outnumber the professional managers by roughly a 2:1 ratio.  So the no-exceptions circle hook rule was adopted by a board made up primarily of fishermen, secondarily by professional fisheries managers (many of whom also fish, something that is particularly true here in New York, where the head of the DEC's Marine Division is a lifelong angler who lived in Amityville all of his life and grew up on Great South Bay), and has politicians coming in a very distant third--one or two of the legislative appointees appear in person and not by fishermen-proxies.  So this rule was adopted, by and large, by people who very mjuch understand the fisheries and the rule's implications.

 

Some people might not like it because it cramps their particular style, but it was not made by politicians.  Here in New York, we had discussions at the Marine Resources Advisory Council well ahead of the ASMFC meeting, where rigged eels were specifically discussed at length[ I suspect that similar discussions were held in most other states, and were told that anglers raised the issue in some New England states.  So the decision was not uninformed.

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Any person sitting on a board, committee or in another position of power deciding, advising on or developing laws, regardless of their background or intent has entered the political spectrum.

 

In my opinion regulation in any form should be as limited and targeted as possible so as not to infringe on the public. The fact that they (fully informed) specifically went out of their way to target and close loopholes to make the law as encompassing and overbearing as possible speaks volumes to me. I understand many wont agree with my view but it is what it is.

 

Many anglers now have to decide, do they abide by these frankly ridiculous requirements, or do they continue to use these relatively harmless and extremely effective techniques.

 

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Being a rigged eel fisherman I cannot see myself changing to circle hooks. I don’t see any sensible reason to. Anyone that fishes them correctly know they hit, you hookset. There’s no pause. If using circles would you then wait on the fish to set the hook on its own? I’m sure this would result in more fish dropping the bait. A chance I’m not taking.

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Though I do not use rigged eels, I do do a lot of tube and worm trolling off of my kayak for stripers. There is no question that natural sand worms are orders of magnitude more effective than Gulp sand worms on the T&W.  With Maine being shot down for a T&W exception to the circle hook rule, I find myself facing the same conundrum as you rigged eel fisherman.  Will a T&W set up even work with a circle hook?  Is the T&W for stripers now an obsolete method?

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I can see charter and party boats complying simply because it’s a regulation. However who’s coming to check me at 2 am? The dec? Good luck with that. I have seen them three times in thirty years on the beach. I’m not trying to be rebellious , just realistic.

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Guys, we choose each day to either obey laws or not.  

 Look at it like traffic laws.  If you go 40 in a 35, your breakin the law. But it's really not enforced. 

 I view the new law isn't bad as a collective whole. All the bait soakers swap over. Maybe a few more fish will get released healthy. 

 U toss a rigged eel with Js @ Odark thirty No Harm. No Foul but u know u may face a ticket.    Just like speeding down an empty highway at night. 

 

Edited by PSegnatelli

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17 hours ago, Sandbar1 said:

Any person sitting on a board, committee or in another position of power deciding, advising on or developing laws, regardless of their background or intent has entered the political spectrum.

 

In my opinion regulation in any form should be as limited and targeted as possible so as not to infringe on the public. The fact that they (fully informed) specifically went out of their way to target and close loopholes to make the law as encompassing and overbearing as possible speaks volumes to me. I understand many wont agree with my view but it is what it is.

 

Many anglers now have to decide, do they abide by these frankly ridiculous requirements, or do they continue to use these relatively harmless and extremely effective techniques.

 

My belief is that the first obligation of fisheries managers is to ensure the sustainability of fish stocks in the long term.  That includes the adoption of effective and enforceable regulations to achieve and maintain such sustainability.  When there is ambiguity as the the need of a particular measure, that ambiguity should be resolved in favor of the fish on which fishermen depend for both their sport and their livelihood.

 

Fishermen must then adapt their behavior to conform to the needs of the fish and the regulations intended to address those needs.  Yes, it's a nuisance sometimes, but we're rational adults and not demanding children, and life should have taught us how to adapt to such things by now,.

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