Rigged eels for 2021 circle hook regulations

[CWitek]

3 mins ago, DZ said:

So Charles these are just “proposed” regs at this point?  So they will ask each state for comment? 

The ASMFC's Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board voted, at its October meeting, to require all states to mandate the use of non-offset circle hooks when anglers use natural bait, without exceptions.  It rejected Maine's request to exempt tube and worm rigs, and Massachusetts request to exempt for-hire anglers and bait attached to lures meant to be trolled, cast, or jigged.  Rigged eels were also specifically mentioned during the discussion.

 

Thus, there is no doubt that circle hooks will be reqiired in all "natural baits," including eels.

 

However, states will still have some discretion in defining "natural bait."  New York is going to carry over its definition of "natural bait" used in fresh water, which includes pork rind, and also scented dough baits, etc.  Other states may well draft narrower regulations that will include bunker, squid and--unfortunately from the standpoint of thisn discussion--eel, but either don't include or specifically excludes things such as pork rind.

 

In that respect, anglers may be able to impact the rulemaking process in their states, and have natural, but deriviative products such as pork rind excluded from the circle hook requirements.  But dead fish, including dead eels, would be included under the ASMFC's original action.

[DZ]

4 mins ago, CWitek said:

The ASMFC's Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board voted, at its October meeting, to require all states to mandate the use of non-offset circle hooks when anglers use natural bait, without exceptions.  It rejected Maine's request to exempt tube and worm rigs, and Massachusetts request to exempt for-hire anglers and bait attached to lures meant to be trolled, cast, or jigged.  Rigged eels were also specifically mentioned during the discussion.

 

Thus, there is no doubt that circle hooks will be reqiired in all "natural baits," including eels.

 

However, states will still have some discretion in defining "natural bait."  New York is going to carry over its definition of "natural bait" used in fresh water, which includes pork rind, and also scented dough baits, etc.  Other states may well draft narrower regulations that will include bunker, squid and--unfortunately from the standpoint of thisn discussion--eel, but either don't include or specifically excludes things such as pork rind.

 

In that respect, anglers may be able to impact the rulemaking process in their states, and have natural, but deriviative products such as pork rind excluded from the circle hook requirements.  But dead fish, including dead eels, would be included under the ASMFC's original action.

Thanks Charles - I know earlier this year in R.I. s case we let our state regulators know we were not crazy about the idea of the circles being applied to rigged eels.  Hopefully we can gather enough support to clarify the definition of both eels and pork rind when our state regulators meet to discuss our 2021 regs.  Thanks for your knowledge.

[Sandbar1]

30 mins ago, CWitek said:

We're not talking about taking away "rights."  We are talking about regulating fishing, which is a privilege subject to the police power of the state, and not a constitutionally (at either the federal or state level) protected right.

All the more reason to mistrust these regulations. 

[Sandbar1]

3 hours ago, DZ said:

Thanks Charles - I know earlier this year in R.I. s case we let our state regulators know we were not crazy about the idea of the circles being applied to rigged eels.  Hopefully we can gather enough support to clarify the definition of both eels and pork rind when our state regulators meet to discuss our 2021 regs.  Thanks for your knowledge.

+1 despite any difference of opinion, @CWitek knowledge on this subject is invaluable to the conversation.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Sandbar1

[sytheteacher]

The more regulations the better...Because the population of all the fish in lakes and oceans will  increase and hopefully not go extinct..  We will benefit from these rules and regulations..

[hobobob]

Of course. 

[pakalolo]

1 hour ago, CWitek said:

We're not talking about taking away "rights."  We are talking about regulating fishing, which is a privilege subject to the police power of the state, and not a constitutionally (at either the federal or state level) protected right.

The Dongan Patent guarantees us the RIGHT to harvest shellfish and finfish from Town (Southampton and Easthampton) waters , hence the 'registration' in NY state vs a license. The DEC knew that there would be a losing court battle if they attempted to overturn established case law. The Dongan Patent has been upheld in NY State Supreme Court on more than one occasion, check NYSDEC v Vorpahl. We follow State finfish regs in salt water, State has no authority in our fresh. But on a broader level we have the God given right to fish , regulated ? Sure , but it's a right. Thanks as always for your time and knowledgeable input.

[MakoMike]

4 hours ago, MakoMike said:

Bucktails fished with pork rind are totally unaffected by the circle hook rule.

It looks like I should have said “should be totally unaffected....”

[MakoMike]

Aren’t there plastic strips on the market that imitate a pork rind’s action? Just use those on your buck tails and you’re in the clear.

[Southcoastphil]

Reading through this thread, I have to thank all of you for your insights.

 

If I understand it correctly, this regulation would also apply to eel SKINS, right?

[TimS]

4 hours ago, Sandbar1 said:

I don't think you could possibly argue that a scented soft plastic like gulp constitutes a natural "bait".

I don't think you could possibly argue that a bait created entirely in a lab is a 'natural' bait  

[Sandbar1]

1 hour ago, MakoMike said:

Aren’t there plastic strips on the market that imitate a pork rind’s action? Just use those on your buck tails and you’re in the clear.

There are, they're very effective too. Personally I like the fat cow jig strips, very similar in design and action to Uncle Josh.

 

Of course in principle I shouldn't be worried about a fine regardless of the trailer I choose.

[Sandbar1]

1 hour ago, Southcoastphil said:

Reading through this thread, I have to thank all of you for your insights.

 

If I understand it correctly, this regulation would also apply to eel SKINS, right?

If it applies to pork it would certainly appy to eel skins as well.

 

 

Aww shucks, now what am I going to do with my eel skin plugs and jigs, might have to lose them all in a boating accident..

[Saltfruit]

1 hour ago, Southcoastphil said:

Reading through this thread, I have to thank all of you for your insights.

 

If I understand it correctly, this regulation would also apply to eel SKINS, right?

Aaaannnndddd there's the stickiest slope of all.

Circle-hooked eelskin plugs? Oof

[Southcoastphil]

I just read a post by Tony Lapinski on FB, in which he states that the regs are crystal clear that skins are INCLUDED in the ban for 2021.  It appears that public hearings re 2022 regs will start occurring in spring 2021, at which we can provide input re 2022 regs.

 

Looks like those skins in my freezer won't be seeing a plug or a skin jig for a while.

 

 

(Unless I put them to use when @Sandbar1 shows up next month.)

Edited November 25, 2020 by Southcoastphil