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Big & Heavy Flies for the Salt & the Two Hand Crew

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frazerp

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Two handed rods can help with big flies, but I've found the easiest way to "get them out there" is with one of those short rods - Loomis made the Short Stick which I believe Sedotti helped develop and there are others made by TFO and even a few by Bass Pro Shops for some reason. 

 

The Achilles heel with all big flies is they can only look big, they can't feel (to a lateral line) big or smell like a big bait smells - thus I've found they require a fish to be in a fairly aggressive mood (if fish have moods) which large stripers rarely are.

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I assumed frazerp was being sarcastic about a 358 grain fly. How much lead is actually in a reasonably sized sedotti slammer?  

 

I was thinking of weighting as a design principle not something heretical.

 

Someday I hope to experience one of these cows on small bait scenarios, but if I have bunker, herring and big fish in my backyard, why not learn to tie a properly designed big fly?

Edited by Bait Tailer
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Larger flies displace more water and cause more commotion, thereby being more easily detected by lateral line. They’re also more easily seen and heard. I find that spun deer hair heads seem to attract attention at night, and am convinced that the water vibrating the trimmed hair in current or when being retrieved helps fish to key in on them.

    As for the weight, I think they’re not so much talking about increasing sink rate as using added weight to prolong forward momentum in wind-resistant flies. Same concept as loading Redfins for farther casting.

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4 hours ago, Bait Tailer said:

And thanks @Linesidesonthefly. found your old post 'Go get some Groceries'. The photos are missing but great description. It's saved to the winter tying library. 

Bill Catheroods Giant Killer series spawned the evolution. Look at his work and the pieces will fall together. 

International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers

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I’ve read thru this and the best I can figure many folks just don’t get the Physics around added weight in the fly. And that’s not odd as the concept is somewhat counterintuitive to the way we think about fly fishing. 
There is just enough weight to overcome the drag on the materials the casting action impacts upon the fly itself. 
Besides a large fly without internal weight would track wrong in the water.  Primarily due to the weight of materials above hook centerline being more then that below. Think back of baitfish vs. belly of the baitfish. 
Therefore the lead enables the caster to haul the line. Either water haul, single haul, and shoot. Or single haul, double haul, and shoot. 

Edited by Linesidesonthefly

International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers

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Currently have aphasia.    Aphasia is a result of my head stroke causing a bleed.   Happened in my Maine vacation in July (2021).   Lucky me less than 1% of people get stroke aphasia.  :(      I'm making project but have been told this is easily 5 months to 1 year for this to improve.   Until then hope you don't mind making sense with what I text.   HT

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I tied an articulated bunker this summer.  It cast like a Lead Zeppelin.  I increased my tippet from 20 lb to 30 lb and stopped trying to cast huge distances.  I found to roll cast to turn the fly over to water load and needed to pull the head way in.  I did a roll cast, then false cast to get the head out of the tip, back cast, shoot.  This fly is 11" long and makes an ominous whistling sound as it goes by your ear...  It did work though.

I would ******* LOVE a grave blanket. icon14.gif
 

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Seems to me that very few off-the-shelf goodies work as advertised, which may explain why so many of us fisherpeople load redfins, build our own rods, some even try to make specialized fly lines. Some hammers do work as advertised - three of us starving NYC painters went to work for Tony Smith, he took us all to lunch and then to the hardware store and bought us each a 12-ounce hammer. We were to build full-size mockups of his sculptures and the hammer blows sinking nails thru the 3/8 plywood skin were to be as consistent as possible, even though eventually coated with a layer of roofing tar.

 

Sidotti’s Slammer has ~58 grains of lead (1/7th oz), multiply that for a hook, feathers, thread & epoxy - so maybe 174 grains (a bit more than 1/3 oz.). Let’s get it wet, now it's 200 grains (7/16ths of an ounce).

 

Not the 358 grains (13/16ths) of my 1st back of the envelope, but w/Gunnar’s hammer of fine-tuning fly weight with lengths & diameters of lead, we have another tool in our box.

Try - https://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/Weight-Calculator
 

Morone Saxatilis... God put them in the Surf to take them, not in the freaking boat!

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We don’t even need huge weighted flies to break our rod tips. 1/0 sized  Deceivers can do this job quite easily. But these bigger flies will need even less of a casting error to cause crappy outcomes.

I wonder how many Fishers will try them even. I would try one if given one to see if they do perform how I think they will.


mike

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18 mins ago, FishHawk II said:

One of the dangers with a heavy fly especially Clousers or flies with beadhead if they strike the rod sooner or later the rod will break from the hit. Been there done that. FishHawk

 

Tell me about it.  :(

 

ouch.jpg.a9f2d2693fdd311506cf66d1dfe4e801.jpg

Currently have aphasia.    Aphasia is a result of my head stroke causing a bleed.   Happened in my Maine vacation in July (2021).   Lucky me less than 1% of people get stroke aphasia.  :(      I'm making project but have been told this is easily 5 months to 1 year for this to improve.   Until then hope you don't mind making sense with what I text.   HT

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Put away the boots and started boat fishing about 30 years ago, generally in and south and east of Nahant Bay, which is just north of Boston Harbor. During that time I have released 5 or 6 fish between 45" and 48" and they all ate average sized flies fished on sink tip or full sinking lines, and all hooked and released during full-light portions of the day. In my opinion, it's all about being in the right place at the right time + being able to but something in front of a fish that looks like food.

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