frazerp

Big & Heavy Flies for the Salt & the Two Hand Crew

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Just watched Gunnar Bremmer’s recent video "How to Make BIG Flies Cast-able: Weight Balancing Flies" and followed-up with Mark Sedotti’s detailed tie of his Slammer.

 

Sedotti’s weight details are, I assume, his trial & error solutions to castability, tracking, etc., while Gunnar’s are empirical solutions to weighting flies that one already knows that catch fish or want to make and/or retrofit new variations. His solution to weighting tube fly hooks is especially masterful.

 

As a recent and novice convert to the 2 handed fly rod & follower of the crew on SOL, I’ve seen discussed the conversion of inexpensive carp rods to higher-priced blanks such as Mike Oliver’s, with RedGreen’s Pac Bay build somewhere in the middle; a thread on line types, head lengths, weight and taper issues; a now recently a discussion of fly rod grips, much of which was cornered by members of the TH crew ...

 

So now how’s about a thread on fly weights, tracking & castability - can we add a 358 grain fly to a 650-grain line & get the 1000 grains RedGreen wants in less than a 46’ head ???
                                    

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5 hours ago, frazerp said:

can we add a 358 grain fly to a 650-grain line & get the 1000 grains RedGreen wants in less than a 46’ head ???

uh oh... Two handed jigs for the surf!
 

Great videos.  Ive just been freestyling big flies and rely heavily on lead wire around the shank and bend and sometimes a cone or bead up front AFTER I realize my fly doesn’t fish well. Need to work on weighting over the winter.  The tube options look promising.

 

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Ok I have cast some of TGS big flies and even with a TH it ain’t easy. It takes time to learn how to do it.

 

I have cast very heavy crab flies in a Main. Dumbel Eyes  at front and back.

 

Truth is they  we’re not really fly cast. Some how if you got the fly line to go straight behind you it was possible to come forward and make a pretty decent cast distance wise but not to any kind of head breeze.

 

I suspect that these weight balanced flies will cast in a similar way.

 

Ok just looked at the video. The fly might just as well be a plug. The line is not casting the weighted fly.  It can give it momentum but it is not casting it.

If this does not matter to you no probs.

 

If I ever get to fish for Stripers eating 2 lb Bunker then I would try it. Sadly from shore not come across this yet.

 

TGS is a bit of an Expert with his big flies. I did catch a fish on one and had a Striper chase another, Simply awesome.

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Oliver

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I wouldn’t say that the fly is making the cast more than the line. I think they’re both integral but the excess of weight combats the fact that you’re chucking a foot long fly that’s shaped like a piece of paper. 

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I want to say it was a very long time ago. Maybe even the better part of 20 years?

I did some step by step instructions of a NE Grocery Fly called Jim’s Pollock Fly. Ode to Jim Bernstein of Eldredge Bros Fly Shop in Cape Neddeck Maine. 
Jims instruction included a lead donut made from .025” lead wire. It serves two purposes. First it permits the caster to false cast negating the wet sock affect. Second the weight rights the fly in the water. 
The lead was the key to casting such a big pile of chicken feathers. And I can promise you it has nailed it’s fair share of large fish. 
A search might produce results? If you can’t find it let me know as I think I’ve got printed instructions with pictures in my tying room. 
I’d be happy to make a copy and mail em to you. 
Then again maybe I should just do another step by step for all to see?

The technique has been a well hidden one for 20 years or so. Since the cats apparently out of the bag. Perhaps us Mainers can let you know of something we’ve kept quiet about all this time?

The photo shows the very technique although in a Mackeral. And the fish that nailed it circa 2003. We employed a bait and switch using a live Mackeral to agitate the Stripers. Then tossed the fly to them. 
Like stealing candy from a baby. 

D47F3231-8261-4DF6-B4F9-B3D9519CC5AB.jpeg

Edited by Linesidesonthefly

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8 hours ago, Ftyer said:

I wouldn’t say that the fly is making the cast more than the line. I think they’re both integral but the excess of weight combats the fact that you’re chucking a foot long fly that’s shaped like a piece of paper. 

Ftyer

 

This is one that you have to try yourself. I have with very heavy crabs and it was very obvious that the fly was flung rather then cast. 
I don’t think it is something that we can reckon on. Proof is in the eating of the pudding.

 

Mike

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2 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

Ftyer

 

This is one that you have to try yourself. I have with very heavy crabs and it was very obvious that the fly was flung rather then cast. 
I don’t think it is something that we can reckon on. Proof is in the eating of the pudding.

 

Mike

Might that difference of opinion result from differences in the casting style, the weight added to the fly and the line weight?

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I think I can picture what you’re describing. The line doesn’t pull the crab forward until the back cast straightens out the line and leader and forward cast pulls directly on the crab. Crab pulls and straightens the line and leader on forward cast as it passes the loop.  Like trying to cast a lure while incorporating a back cast. Sounds kind of clunky.

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I would also submit that the leader is critical in casting heavy flies. For example if your  tippet is 5x it will not help in turning over a heavy fly. You need a leader with a larger diameter tippet which will help turn over the fly. https://www.demystifly.com/post/2017/04/20/tips-to-help-you-cast-and-turn-over-big-flies

FishHawk

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30 mins ago, baldwin said:

I think I can picture what you’re describing. The line doesn’t pull the crab forward until the back cast straightens out the line and leader and forward cast pulls directly on the crab. Crab pulls and straightens the line and leader on forward cast as it passes the loop.  Like trying to cast a lure while incorporating a back cast. Sounds kind of clunky.

Clunky seems to be the fitting word.Timing too. Very interesting...………………..

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May  ask - to what end are we even discussing casting flys weighing as much as a #10 line???

On another thread it was discussed fly size vs fish size.  Pretty much documented that small flys catch bib Bass.

My best shore caught 44" bass was caught on a very sparse #4 sand eel.

Get a spinning rod if you want to cast weight.

Herb

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FishHawk,

 

No leader that we are familiar with will turn over these weighted flies under discussion. 100 mono is not going to turn them over. The sheer momentum if enough of it is given to the fly means it will go out to the end of the leader.

Herb has got a point. There does come a time when it is not fly casting by most peoples definition but something else. Some it will bother I think and others will just embrace it. 
 

Mike

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2 hours ago, baldwin said:

I think I can picture what you’re describing. The line doesn’t pull the crab forward until the back cast straightens out the line and leader and forward cast pulls directly on the crab. Crab pulls and straightens the line and leader on forward cast as it passes the loop.  Like trying to cast a lure while incorporating a back cast. Sounds kind of clunky.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

 

Mike

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56 mins ago, HL said:

May  ask - to what end are we even discussing casting flys weighing as much as a #10 line???

On another thread it was discussed fly size vs fish size.  Pretty much documented that small flys catch bib Bass.

My best shore caught 44" bass was caught on a very sparse #4 sand eel.

Get a spinning rod if you want to cast weight.

Herb

This

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