flyangler

25 Year Old Ken Abrames/Saltwater Edge Flatwings

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39 posts in this topic

20200613_093313.jpg.5bda554c1d81665ea24cfbc33c7d918f.jpg

19 hours ago, HillTop said:

 

Labor !   Even if he could whip up 2 of these per hour that's less than $46 per hour once you figure in materials.   Sounds like a lot but I wouldn't do it for any cheaper.

 

HT

For kicks I tied a Flat Mack a few months back with a few changes as I didn't have the green and blue grizzly saddle hackles called for in this pattern. I ended up with a thirteen feather flatwing and it took me over an hour to tie it. So no surprise that it takes even a gifted commercial tier 45 minutes to do one. And at 23$ it's a steal for the buyer considering the time and materials.

 

Edited by Suave
Wrong picture

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20 mins ago, Suave said:

20200613_093313.jpg.5bda554c1d81665ea24cfbc33c7d918f.jpg

For kicks I tied a Flat Mack a few months back with a few changes as I didn't have the green and blue grizzly saddle hackles called for in this pattern. I ended up with a thirteen feather flatwing and it took me over an hour to tie it. So no surprise that it takes even a gifted commercial tier 45 minutes to do one. And at 23$ it's a steal for the buyer considering the time and materials.

 

Great looking fly. 

 

In the podcast, Joe mentioned that they had so much interest in tying flat wings that he create kits to help people get started. He observed that the minimum financial investment to get started is daunting for many. His ability to buy in bulk and breakdown to single-fly kits seemed a way to introduce more tyers to flatwings. What he said he didn't expect was the demand which far exceeded expectations. Same does for the 30-page book on tying flatwings that he self-published. 

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17 hours ago, flyangler said:

Great looking fly. 

 

In the podcast, Joe mentioned that they had so much interest in tying flat wings that he create kits to help people get started. He observed that the minimum financial investment to get started is daunting for many. His ability to buy in bulk and breakdown to single-fly kits seemed a way to introduce more tyers to flatwings. What he said he didn't expect was the demand which far exceeded expectations. Same does for the 30-page book on tying flatwings that he self-published. 

Then try to find Kens book "A perfect fish" for less than $400.I won't lend mine to anyone and those who would like to read my copy must stay inside the shop doors!:howdy:

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20 mins ago, theshadow said:

Then try to find Kens book "A perfect fish" for less than $400.I won't lend mine to anyone and those who would like to read my copy must stay inside the shop doors!:howdy:

That there is funny. 

 

When we moved from CT to FL, I donated several dozen fishing books to the local TU to sell for fund raising. Among them was my first edition copy of Stripermoon, though that is not a classic and can be found used quite easily. 

 

Purging and downsizing sucks....

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Very nice tie Suave. I’d give you a dozen likes on that one if I could. 
 

I think the flatwing saddle market is way over inflated. My advice to anyone would be to haunt ebay and visit the shows and be patient .

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31 mins ago, Orca said:

Very nice tie Suave. I’d give you a dozen likes on that one if I could. 
 

I think the flatwing saddle market is way over inflated. My advice to anyone would be to haunt ebay and visit the shows and be patient .

Thanks. When I discovered flatwings about four years ago and decided to tie a few, of course I didn't have the proper hackles (up to that time, I had been tying mostly Atlantic salmon, trout and smallmouth bass flies) and there was little chance I could find those up here either in fly shops (no demand so) or at  our very few and small shows where you will not find a hackle producer present as you do at yours. So I ordered online from a specialized feather outlet in the US, ordering mostly half saddles at $25 a pop. So in no time you end up with quite a few hundred dollars worth of feathers to tie .... à few dozen flies. But at least tying them is fun and, at least up here, they are eye openers when shown to other fly tiers.

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Hi All,

 

I took the liberty of calling Ken about this. He was very pleased that you shared your discovery with us. As far as who tied them, he says it could have been him or Joe or someone else -- there's really no way of knowing. FWIW that looks like Ken's writing on the packs. Hope that helps.

 

Steve Culton

P.S. As far as flatwings go, Joe C's prices are right in line with what I charge. They're labor intensive for sure.

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9 mins ago, The Fisherman said:

Hi All,

 

I took the liberty of calling Ken about this. He was very pleased that you shared your discovery with us. As far as who tied them, he says it could have been him or Joe or someone else -- there's really no way of knowing. FWIW that looks like Ken's writing on the packs. Hope that helps.

 

Steve Culton

P.S. As far as flatwings go, Joe C's prices are right in line with what I charge. They're labor intensive for sure.

Steve, 

 

Joe's son Greg reached out to tell me Joe is out of town and will try to get back to me soon. In the interim, Greg said:

 

Thanks so much for reaching out and the flies are beautiful. If i had to guess, those are tied by Joe (my father), it looks like his handwriting on those bags and those looks like his style of tying, but will let him determine. 

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15 mins ago, flyangler said:

Steve, 

 

Joe's son Greg reached out to tell me Joe is out of town and will try to get back to me soon. In the interim, Greg said:

 

Thanks so much for reaching out and the flies are beautiful. If i had to guess, those are tied by Joe (my father), it looks like his handwriting on those bags and those looks like his style of tying, but will let him determine. 

Too funny! It sure looks like Ken's "G" to me but I'm no handwriting expert. If I had to guess I'd guess that Joe tied them.

 

Steve Culton

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27 mins ago, The Fisherman said:

Too funny! It sure looks like Ken's "G" to me but I'm no handwriting expert. If I had to guess I'd guess that Joe tied them.

The mystery thickens. 

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20 hours ago, The Fisherman said:

Hi All,

 

I took the liberty of calling Ken about this. He was very pleased that you shared your discovery with us. As far as who tied them, he says it could have been him or Joe or someone else -- there's really no way of knowing. FWIW that looks like Ken's writing on the packs. Hope that helps.

 

Steve Culton

P.S. As far as flatwings go, Joe C's prices are right in line with what I charge. They're labor intensive for sure.

I received an email response from Joe last night confirming that in the years I referenced, he was tying the flies for Ken. He also confirmed that that is definitely his handwriting on the plastic bags. 

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Unfortunately, as beautiful as these flies are, I have no practical use for them given I am not likely to fish stripers anytime soon and as pointed out, the fish I seek down here are not picky and would chew up those feathers in short order. It would be a crime to waste them like that. 

 

So, I want to put them on the BST board for sale so they can find a home with anglers who can fish them, use them as models for their own tying or who might want to save them for their other reasons. 

 

For those reading this and with an interest, how should I offer the flies? For most of the patterns, I have two of each as shown in the OP. The offering options as I see them are:

  • Sell every fly individually
  • Sell each pair of a single pattern
  • Create bundles of a single fly of each pattern (ie two bundles)

If maximizing the value was the goal, an auction process would be preferred but that is not possible in BST and I want to be fair to as many anglers as possible. 

 

Heck, reading what I just wrote, I really should offer each fly on its own. 

 

Thoughts? 

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