Eric Roach

System Three Clear Coat (Adhesion)

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System Three Clear Coat (CC) really doesn’t seem to (initially) adhere well to a painted lure.  Even if it is poured on it beads up & runs off like water poured over plastic.  I would imagine this is why the initial coat looks so terrible with fish-eyes, etc.  Too much brushing to smooth it out makes matters worse and can eventually affect the paint job itself.

 

I emailed System Three’s technical support to ask if there was a coating that could be sprayed on the painted surface to help with adhesion before CC is brushed on.  Waiting for a reply.

 

Has anyone found a product (or method) to help with this issue?  I really like the durability of CC so I’m invested in finding a good process to apply it.

 

Thanks,


Eric

Edited by Eric Roach

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I just got a response from System Three:

 

“...The issue you are running into is that the painted surface is too smooth for the Clear Coat to properly bond to the surface. To ensure proper adhesion of the epoxy, the surface should be sanded (150 grit) before coating. You would likely run into similar issues using any other film-forming, un-sanded paint...”

 

I see where they are coming from, but trying to scuff up the paint film without marring the paint itself doesn’t seem possible.  
 

They didn’t provide a suggestion for a sprayed coating (over the paint, under the CC) to help with bonding.  I wonder if a matte clear-coat from a rattle can could be applied, then scuffed to help with adhesion(?)

Edited by Eric Roach

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Haha. Welcome to The challenges of Clear Coat. What you  are talking about is an issue That the second coat will usually fix. . What I am doing now, well trying, is using another epoxy that  covers well without those issues  then putting the system 3 clear coat over it that next day. Seems to be working. I tried the clear spray before epoxy buy you have to scuff the clear before epoxy is applied. I hated that because I would ruin paint jobs sometimes scuffing. I love the durability of clear coat but it has driven me crazy off and on for 15 years. I’m hoping this remedies the issue. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Hi Paul, nice to hear from you.

 

Funny, I was thinking the same thing — using another epoxy as a “base coat”.  Maybe e-tex, then scuffing it up to be followed by Clear Coat.

 

I’m glad you mentioned that using a (scuffed) clear matte spray was problematic; you saved me a paint job or two.

Edited by Eric Roach

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I don't use S3, but I have found a shot of matte clear has solved all my adhesion problems with createx paints. 

Any problems I encounter these days are user error.

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Have just entered the nightmare world of System 3 Clear Coat and had all the problems mentioned above and applying a matte coat did not help for me with first coat adherence problem. Haven't built any thing since the spring but my next step will be waiting maybe 20 minutes or more after mixing and then applying the finish to the lure.  Since the Clear Coat seems to be a lower viscosity than E-tex which I had been using it also tends to accumulate towards the front and back of the lure while on the spinner, running down the taper of the lure body. Lures are horizontal on the spinner, if that makes sense. 

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I have always used an in line spinner, horizontal, and never had any issues with more on one side or the other. 

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This was on my first attempt using Clear Coat, I ended up putting 3 coats of epoxy to get full coverage. I'm thinking this was largely due to due to cool basement temps (62 F) when applying. I've since read that under 70 is not good. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Another odd effect of CC is that it seems to alter some of the subtle effects of iridescent, metallic and transparent paints.  The final effects are markedly duller, and the transparent paint ends up darker.  My guess is the CC attacks the paint film, as some colors also end up bleeding over others.  (The paint is Polytranspar lacquer.)

 

Next try will be what Steel Pulse suggested:  1st coat of an easier-to-apply epoxy (probably Envirotex Lite), heavily scuffed, then a coat of CC.

 

Edited by Eric Roach

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On 9/23/2020 at 9:04 PM, Sparky said:

I don't use S3, but I have found a shot of matte clear has solved all my adhesion problems with createx paints. 

Any problems I encounter these days are user error.

Yup I’d try this , when I went to airbrush I was having so much problems with etex fish eyeing like crazy .. sparky suggested the matte clear and man feel like I been reborn ,  took my least favorite aspect of building to a nice easy , dare I say pleasing task now .. what’s ya got to lose ? 4$ on a can at the big box 

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I've been using Systems Three clear coat for a very long time with very few problems.  90% of my painting is done with Rustoleum & Krylon rattle can products.  Occasionally I'll find a paint brand that does not play nice but I've weeded most of them out.   I prefer Rustoleum protective coating flat white as my base & I can apply most anything on top of that without problems or any need to "scuff".   One coat of Systems Three clear coat gives me a more than adequate & durable epoxy finish coat.   That being said some  metallic  & some high gloss blacks & dark blues can leave an occasional fish eye or bare spot..  When that happens I just  let it dry & then apply a second coat.   If you follow all the instructions on the rattle cans, measure the amounts of resin & hardener 100% accurate, stir it very, very thoroughly & apply it at 70 degrees or more you'll be well on your way to a great finished plug.  Given my choice I prefer 1/2" mylar bristle brushes.  Systems Three clear coat is a 2 to 1 mix.  Typically I will mix 10 ML of hardener with 20 ML of resin in a 30 ML plastic cup with measurement increments indicated on the cup.  I stir the mix with a popcicle stick for a minimum of 6 - 7 minutes.  Stir slowly so you don't introduce bubbles.  Brush on the mixed product & let it hang.... when the epoxy runs to the bottom end of the plug then swap ends & let it run the other way.  Eventually (depending on the temperature) the epoxy will start to set up.  If you have some sort of spinner it can eliminate have to swap ends.  Before starting be SURE all your components are close to 70 degrees. (Work area, plug blanks, epoxy etc. etc)  Try keep the area dust & lint free without any drafts blowing debris onto your beautiful epoxy finish.   Yes..... there is a learning curve to using this stuff..... but if I can figure it out so can you.  Mike

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