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10’ ODM evolution guide layout

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Goldy

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21 hours ago, hobobob said:

Then you probably dont like the rv guides / kr concept. # of guides should not be a prerequisite. Whos building? talk to a rod builder or odm directly.

Kr concept is lots of guides.  
 

dont know who is building yet.  Im doing lots of research 

 

i like the idea of the forst two guides being double foot 30-20 and then going down to maybe a 16 and then some runners for a total of 7 or 8 guides.  
 

curius to know your thoughts

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1 hour ago, Goldy said:

Kr concept is lots of guides.  
 

dont know who is building yet.  Im doing lots of research 

 

i like the idea of the forst two guides being double foot 30-20 and then going down to maybe a 16 and then some runners for a total of 7 or 8 guides.  
 

curius to know your thoughts

Whatever surffishmike said. The guys are pros.  I am just a hack whos doing it for fun.  If you are not building it youself, call up grumpy or odm directly.   If you dont need the rod now, attend one of their winter workshop and do it on your own over the winter.

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1 hour ago, SurffisherMike said:

30-20 isnt good as your first 2 double foot. you will probabky want the the highframe 30 following that with a 20 is no good. but the 20 singlefoot is actually taller than the doublefoot. 

Sorry it was 30-25.  
 

my buddy built one with 20h as first guide ans fuji says that can handle a 7000 sizes reel.  
 

13 mins ago, hobobob said:

Whatever surffishmike said. The guys are pros.  I am just a hack whos doing it for fun.  If you are not building it youself, call up grumpy or odm directly.   If you dont need the rod now, attend one of their winter workshop and do it on your own over the winter.

 

im not in a rush. I can call odm or ask frank at grumpies but i like tapping the experts here on sol and hearing different opinions

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If you are using the klag20-h, that's the kr setup. Not the same guides I was talking about in the 1 doublefoot then single foot build. The kr setup is spelled out pretty good on anglersresources site. It is much higher off the blank than a regular 20 single foot. If you go the route there are not a lot of modifications you can make to a kr layout if you are doing it properly. There is a calculator on the anglersresource site that takes your reel and line into consideration. I have no idea how big a 7000 size spinning reel is but a 10 foot rod with 20_30 braid with an appropriate sized reel would probably need a kl25-h as the stripper

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Have you test cast a rod with rv or klh guides before?  Hard to go back to traditional kw/kl guide once you have done so. Silent and smooth.  I'll throw you a curve ball here, double foot reduction guides + kb7(new) / ldb6 runng guides.  But like i said before. I found tip wrap more often with single foot guides.

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8 hours ago, hobobob said:

Have you test cast a rod with rv or klh guides before?  Hard to go back to traditional kw/kl guide once you have done so. Silent and smooth.  I'll throw you a curve ball here, double foot reduction guides + kb7(new) / ldb6 runng guides.  But like i said before. I found tip wrap more often with single foot guides.

This - Absolutely. I liked the kw setups that I had. But the first time that I tried an rv/kl - very smooth and quiet. I don't see myself building a kw again (unless a better option comes along).

ASMFC - Destroying public resources and fisheries one stock at a time since 1942.

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4 hours ago, Drew C. said:

This - Absolutely. I liked the kw setups that I had. But the first time that I tried an rv/kl - very smooth and quiet. I don't see myself building a kw again (unless a better option comes along).

Drew,

 

are you using the kl-h or kl

 

if my center of reel is 23.5” from bottom and i want to use a kl 20h as first guide.  What would be the best spacing.  
 

thx for help im advance.  I like learning and realize everyone hs a different

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Goldy,

Chiming in here - KL20H if you intend to build around the 150 (with only occasional use with your 200) and braid less than 30lb. KL25H or RV25 for heavier braid or more regular use with the 200.

For the 150, on a 10' try 650mm from the spool face in its casting position

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6 hours ago, ZAFisher said:

Goldy,

Chiming in here - KL20H if you intend to build around the 150 (with only occasional use with your 200) and braid less than 30lb. KL25H or RV25 for heavier braid or more regular use with the 200.

For the 150, on a 10' try 650mm from the spool face in its casting position

Thx for this.   The science of the guide concept is very interesting to me. 

 

21 hours ago, SurffisherMike said:

If you are using the klag20-h, that's the kr setup. Not the same guides I was talking about in the 1 doublefoot then single foot build. The kr setup is spelled out pretty good on anglersresources site. It is much higher off the blank than a regular 20 single foot. If you go the route there are not a lot of modifications you can make to a kr layout if you are doing it properly. There is a calculator on the anglersresource site that takes your reel and line into consideration. I have no idea how big a 7000 size spinning reel is but a 10 foot rod with 20_30 braid with an appropriate sized reel would probably need a kl25-h as the stripper

So i talked with steve at odm for a while today.  Still recommenda double foot for first two guides bc they say people are hard on transport.  
 

im really torn on wither kr or new concept.   Im still learning so this is very interesting and you guys are great. 
 

i still hve more research to do for sure. 
 

WITH kr on a 10’ im curioua what your total guides are

 

thanks

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you can certainly to 2 double foot then single foot. the reason i dont is because it i am that conceerned about durability for the the rod 1 extra double foot wont matter, just use all double foot. but you can certainly do it, just need to determine which 2 doublefoot and which is the first single foot.

i havent built a 10' with the kl-h guides. the 10 foot rods i build dont lend themselves to that build. you need to go to anglersresource.net there is a calculator there that will give you all the info you need

 

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34 mins ago, SurffisherMike said:

you can certainly to 2 double foot then single foot. the reason i dont is because it i am that conceerned about durability for the the rod 1 extra double foot wont matter, just use all double foot. but you can certainly do it, just need to determine which 2 doublefoot and which is the first single foot.

i havent built a 10' with the kl-h guides. the 10 foot rods i build dont lend themselves to that build. you need to go to anglersresource.net there is a calculator there that will give you all the info you need

 

Ive been playing around with angler

resource but the kr concept only uses a 5000 size reel and doesnt have the ability to do 30# braid.  
 

good information on that site for sure.  

 

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52 mins ago, Goldy said:

Ive been playing around with angler

resource but the kr concept only uses a 5000 size reel and doesnt have the ability to do 30# braid.  

Thats what this forum is for! Thousands of pages of layout conversations and examples.

 

 

Suggest you don't get hung up on the number of guides.  I'll take a KR layout over Cone of flight any day.  It has 2-3 times as many guides with much better feel and performance.

 

After using KR I'm not going back to NGC on surf rods.  Also haven't bent or broken any of my KLH guides after fishing them hard for 2 years.  Lots of late nights falls and drops on rocks and they get banged up in the car and garage more then they should.

 

But assuming you're having this built by a professional - how much more would it be to go with RVs to cheaper single foot runners vs KLH to the same runners? Maybe 20% total build cost?  If this is a premium build on a premium blank I'd bite the bullet go with premium guides and do the RVs if you're worried about durability. 

 

That said the only guide I broke in the last few seasons was a trvtg 25.  Hit a rock at just the right angle and chipped the insert.  expensive oops

Edited by Bait Tailer
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3 mins ago, Bait Tailer said:

Thats what this forum is for! Thousands of pages of layout conversations and examples.

 

 

Suggest you don't get hung up on the number of guides.  I'll take a KR layout over Cone of flight any day.  It has 2-3 times as many guides with much better feel and performance.

 

After using KR I'm not going back to NGC on surf rods.  Also haven't bent or broken any of my KLH guides after fishing them hard for 2 years.  Lots of late nights falls and drops on rocks and they get banged up in the car and garage more then they should.

 

But assuming you're having this built by a professional - how much more would it be to go with RVs to cheaper single foot runners vs KLH to the same runners? Maybe 20% total build cost?  If this is a premium build on a premium blank I'd bite the bullet go with premium guides and do the RVs if you're worried about durability. 

 

That said the only guide I broke in the last few seasons was a trvtg 25.  Hit a rock at just the right angle and chipped the insert.  Very expensive oops. 

Yeah its a premium blank for sure.  Blank costs 360$. 
 

the rv is still kr concept correct?  Just double foot. 
 

Ngc was designed back in 1995. And kr is much newer so there has to be some reasons it was designed!  
 

this might be stupid but question but you can go from rv and then go to singles easily right


so on a 10’ you can go 25h-16h rv and the. Go to singles.  

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