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HaysWalt

Geiser on the 50/50 Fluke Split Issue

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This time, I agree with him!

 

 

Fluke split must be addressed

 

Published in the Asbury Park Press 7/30/04

 

Commercial, recreational sectors should share quota 50-50

 

 

Nearly every fluke angler who has seriously drifted for summer flatfish this summer knows that the stocks have plenty of depth.

Replacement fish for those being harvested with hook and line are numerous enough to make fisheries management officials throw each other high-fives. The bottom in many areas is covered with small fluke.

 

However, insiders say there is no possibility of the size limit being dropped an inch next year or even a half-inch regardless of this abundance unless there is a change in the commercial-recreational split. In fact, biologists are cautioning that New Jersey might overfish its quota this year.

 

The Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council's fluke, sea bass and porgy monitoring committee met Tuesday, and recommended an increase in the total allowable landings from 28.2 million pounds to 30.3 million pounds in 2005 and 33 million pounds for 2006.

 

The commercial fishery gets 18.18 million pounds next year while the recreational sector gets 12.12 million pounds. Of this, New Jersey gets a quota of roughly 3.63 million pounds or about 1.8 million fish.

 

This year the recreational community got 11.28 million pounds of which New Jersey's share was 3.3 million pounds or about 1.7 million fish.

 

The disconnect between fisheries management and the needs of the fishing public is awful. If there are 500,000 resident and non-resident fluke fishermen in the state, the averages work out to less than four fish per season for each angler.

 

The Mid-Atlantic Council, dominated by commercial fishermen, the National Marine Fisheries Service, and the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission have seen nothing wrong with splitting the overall quota so that 1,400 commercial fishermen along the coast harvest 60 percent of the fluke and 4 million recreational fishermen harvest 40 percent.

 

The fact that one can buy 14-inch fluke in the supermarket, but have to release fish under 16 1/2 inches in New Jersey and 17 inches in New York does not seem out of line to management officials.

 

An unsettling example of how unfair the system is can be seen in the efforts of Mike Paras of Lakewood from Friday through Monday.

 

His game plan was to tune up Friday for the Point Pleasant Elks Tournament the following day, by drifting the Manasquan River and seeing where the fluke were. He tried the grounds around Treasure Island, the stretch from Clark's Landing Marina to the Route 35 Bridge, the channel edges between that bridge and the railroad span, Debbie's Creek, Will's Hole Thoroughfare, the Glimmer Glass and the inlet grounds.

 

 

He caught 25 fluke without a keeper that day, and went into the tournament with Ed Zimmy of Point Pleasant as a partner, and no real strategy. They drifted many of the same spots, hoping for a fish 16 1/2 inches or over. They caught and released 36 more undersized fluke.

 

"Sixty-one fluke without a keeper is a record for the Sea Flea (his boat)," he said. "We spent $300, and couldn't even take a fish home to eat -- a lot of 15- to 16 1/4-inch fluke -- but no keepers."

 

The dearth continued Sunday. Paras caught 22 more fluke without a keeper. Monday he finally scored. He and Bill Browne of Toms River caught 48 more fluke, and three were keepers.

 

"I went 103 fluke to catch the first keeper -- a 17-inch fish," Paras said. "That was a record in fishing futility in the Manasquan River. Unfortunately, there were a lot of 15- to 16-inch fish that would have all been keepers years ago."

 

Dick Kuhn of Gates' Bait and Tackle, Point Pleasant Beach, said Ben Dow of Manchester fished the Manasquan Inlet wall Monday, and caught more than 30 short fluke while landing two 18-inch keepers in six hours of fishing.

 

Capt. Ed Bunting Jr., Sea Horse, Atlantic Highlands, said he is seeing more big fluke in the Raritan Bay channels, and some sea bass on the mussel beds.

 

"Another very good week of catching lots of fluke, just must sort through them to get a keeper," he said. "What keepers we do catch seem to be really nice-sized."

 

Herb Moore Jr., director of government affairs for the Recreational Fishing Alliance, said management officials are studying the petition for rulemaking filed last July that would split the commercial-recreational quota 50-50.

 

The National Marine Fisheries Service has accepted the petition, and the Mid-Atlantic Council and the ASMFC's summer flounder board passed a motion in October to "review the current formula used to allocate landings to the commercial and recreational summer flounder fisheries."

 

Dan Furlong, executive director of the council, said the ASMFC's technical committee met in February to discuss the allocation issue.

 

"The committee has agreed that it would review the available information and prepare a report for consideration by the council and the commission at the August 2004 council meeting in Baltimore," he said.

 

 

Sorry to my commercial friends! HappyWave.gif

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HaysWalt,

How do you feel about a 50/50 split on all fin fish allocated in NJ ? clapping.gif

Right now the split on striped bass is 100/0 recreational to commercial ? confused.gif

Fair ? HA .. not hardly.

Also the Fluke split was done on a coastwide basis. Not realistic nor fair.

In each state there were differences between the two sectors.

In NJ and NY the fluke split was about 60/40 recreational to commercial. THAT IS if you for once decided that the MRFSS was actually right in this one instance now that it is in your favor.

How convienient and hypocritical.

 

In other states the fluke splits were as follows.

 

Virginia about 60/40 in favor of the commercial.

 

Mass was about 80/20 in favor of the commercial.

 

NC was about 90/10 in favor of the commercial.

 

In RI it was about 95/5 in favor of the commercial. cwm31.gif

 

What should be the guiding principle here ?

Do we just pick a fish and a state willy nilly and allocate as we greedily want in each case ?

Pick fish and allocations that favor us in one case and then conveniently ignore and discredit the ones that disadvantage us in another ?

 

This fish grab is unprincipled and sneaky and the people 40.gifcwm8.gifskunk.gif behind this rediculous scheme know perfectly well what they are trying to achieve.

 

Yet once again NJ and NY are trying to rule the roost and control all and anything that happens in all the other states at the detriment of all the others... especially the recreational fishermen in the other states.

 

You tried it in Winter flounder with the 10" pigmy flounder routine ... you tried it in making the striped bass a gamefish everywhere for everyone federal legislation ... you tried it in the Tautog overfishing problem you had... you tried it in the Scup overfishing problem you had... you tried it in the weakfish overfishing problem you had... you tried it in the fluke overfishing problem you had ... Will NY and NJ ever take responsibility for their own problems without dragging all the other states into your big fat problems ?

Will these two states ever try to butt out and stop minding everyone elses business for them ?

 

There is no basic allocation principle here ... no morals here ...no consistancy here. So whats new.

Nothing but more theivery here based on "what I want" and not what is right.

 

We do need to go back and re-examine the splits on all the fisheries in each state as to historical allocations and pick a set of fair standards of allocation that fits for all and has some consistancy in morality and reality.

 

RI has an 88/12 split on striped bass that was always traditionally around 60/40 using the same supposed "fair" reasoning and logic that the new summer flounder proposal is using.

 

So what will it be ? Logic and principle and morality ?

Or out and out theivery, stupidity, egotism, political bullying and and deceit by the recreational/charter leadership in NJ and NY that produced this rediculous, self serving propsal ?

 

This kind of plotting and bullying really frosts my you know what... and does nothing but divide the two fisheries sectors even further. hammer-time.gif

 

Let it be ... GO AWAY !!! moon.gif

Mind your own states business for a welcome change.

 

Rhodester

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By the way...

Just for your information...

Tuesday I caught 40 fish and the smallest one was 15" and today I caught 38 fish and the smallest one was 16".

 

60% of the fish are all over two pounds and 10% are over 4 pounds. biggrin.gif

 

90% of the fish were over 18" so if you guys arent catching any keepers than you need to start learning how to catch bigger fish or go with a Captain that knows what he or she is doing ... HappyWave.gif

Our recreational anglers here seem to be able to catch their limits here in about an hour or two with no problem ... either that or they are lying to everyone else over the radio every day. wink.gif

You decide.

 

Rhodester mad.gifmad.gif

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Incorrect numbers and self serving and quotes:

 

"The disconnect between fisheries management and the needs of the fishing public."

(How about the needs of the consumer ? ) confused.gif

 

"The Mid-Atlantic Council, dominated by commercial fishermen .."

( Untrue as usual ) 40.gif

 

"so that 1,400 commercial fishermen along the coast harvest 60 percent of the fluke and 4 million recreational fishermen harvest 40 percent.."

( Another KNOWN and often repeated fat lie ) 40.gif

 

"Point Pleasant Elks Tournament"...

( So ? Big deal. )

 

"We spent $300"...

( Not managements problem to keep Charter or commercial guys in business )

 

"Mike Paras"..

"Clark's Landing Marina"..

"Ed Zimmy"..

"Sea Flea (his boat)"..

"Bill Browne"..

" Dick Kuhn of Gates' Bait and Tackle"..

"Ben Dow"..

"Capt. Ed Bunting Jr."..

"Herb Moore Jr., director of government affairs for the Recreational Fishing Alliance"..

cwm33.gif

 

Who are these people ? And do you think they care a rats behind about what happens to anybody other than themselves in this life ? I doubt it.

 

And one more point.

The proposed ten percent DECREASE in the commercial fluke quota is REAL, MEASURABLE and WILL IN REALITY HURT lots of "unnamed in the Sunday newspaper" commercial fishermen and the people that depend on them, their infrastructure, family, community etc ...

 

And even more stupidly, the proposed ten percent INCREASE in the recreational fluke quota is IMMEASURABLE, IMPRECISE, UNKNOWN IN HOW TO MAKE A REALITY, and will not be known as to whether it was truly acheived until two years AFTER THE NUMBERS ARE GUESSED AT BY THE MRFSS. Even this guess at what the final numbers might be is a guess and subject to a plus or minus 15% to 25% percent standard error.

How can you measure a ten percent increase with a 25% standard of error confused.gif and no gaurantees as to the future numbers of anglers, trips and the sizes of fish and the weather etc, etc, etc, etc ...

No one can. MRFSS ain't that good.

 

Stupidity and a scam. rolleyes.gif

 

Rhodester mad.gifmad.gif

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HaysWalt,

This kind of plotting and bullying really frosts my you know what... and does nothing but divide the two fisheries sectors even further. hammer-time.gif

 

Let it be ... GO AWAY !!! moon.gif

Mind your own states business for a welcome change.

 

Rhodester

 

I take it you do not agree with Geiser on this issue? biggrin.gif

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