Bait Tailer

Overthinking swivel size and protrusion...

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I've only rewired a handful of plugs but started wondering about this tonight rewiring a big batch of fished out classics.   Searched here and found a bunch of posts about breaking swivels. 

 

Then looked at swivels on plugs from reputable builders and found completely different swivel 'exposure' based on the plug style and builder.   On some plugs the swivel ring barely protrudes enough to get a cut hook through. On other plugs especially thinner styles like needles and pencils most of the barrel is outside the plug. I assume lateral force on the barrel from the eye is not ideal? 

 

Looking to avoid learning the hard way so is there a best practice for belly swivel size and how much of the ring and barrel should protrude from the plug? 

 

Edited by Bait Tailer

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I had hoped that this would get some responses. I think there would be some dos and donts on this subject. 
I think that the main point might be what size fish are you targeting. 
On the smaller plugs it may be a matter of function as in not fouling the main line or marrying hooks. On the larger ones I’m sure there are some preferences. 
Hopefully some will get us in line on this. 
 

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I make sure the barrel rolls on the edge of the plug .....I make sure in the rough stages of the build that it does .....keep the swivels from digging into the wood 

 

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Like madcaster says, the design dictates what goes where, and why. A couple of examples....A Danny plug has the line tie very close to the bottom of the plug. The thru wire would be very low in the plug, if a straight thru hole was used. So builders began drilling the thru hole on center from the tail to the front hook hole, and finished by drilling at an angle from the lip hole up to the first hook hole.This way, the swivel was more deeply inserted into the hook hole, otherwise, almost all of the swivel would be hanging out. On the other side, some plugs get skinny at the rear, so a hook hole drilled straight into the center would expose too much swivel, so some builders angled the hook hole, to make the hole longer.

Another that I ran into, was the Cowboy Jr., which has a large diameter at the front hook hole. The normal 1/0 size swivels I use disappeared into the hole. So I bought some 2/0 swivels, and the ring was too big to fit thru the belly grommet, so I had to squeeze the ring slightly to get it in there, after testing the swivel in a vise, using my fat ass.So far, so good, but they haven't passed the Large test yet.

And don't forget the possible choices under the plug, I've always preferred cut VMC trebles, but if I make a sealed plug with hook hangers, that requires a split ring and a hook, and some guys used swivels, split rings, and hooks. I theink less is more, I use the minimum I can get away with.

 

PS. Thanks to numbskull for the xrays.

 

Plugs.jpg.99b1c247217e747f6e701c5092d53e31.jpg

 

Pichneybootleg.jpg.2e08f1155fb6c76a2cf6e5780bb5b909.jpg

 

pichneydanny.jpg.fa05303b6dbce8480947f7cbf15b61b4.jpg

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On 9/12/2020 at 10:05 AM, SC said:

Larger swivels can be used in smaller diameter plugs by cutting the loop off one end and drilling the barrel of the swivel  

That’s pretty clever 

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Thanks guys, I didn’t know about the through wire positioning. Most of these plugs are large big thick trollers cowboys and other swimmers. Based on the rating I’m confident the 2/0 and 3/0 spro power swivels I used will hold up to any striper I find.  
 

Will definitely try tightening the swivel eye for smaller belly holes and cutting the eye and drilling the barrel seems like a good option for thinner plugs like needles and pencils.

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On 9/12/2020 at 10:05 AM, SC said:

Larger swivels can be used in smaller diameter plugs by cutting the loop off one end and drilling the barrel of the swivel  

That sound very interesting, how would that not weaken the swivel?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

5 hours ago, t_man7 said:

That sound very interesting, how would that not weaken the swivel?

How would it? Swivels were not designed to have force exerted on them in the manner in which it is when used as hook hangers in the first place. Swivels were designed to have equal force applied in a straight line simultaneously from both ends, not as a hook hanger where force is likely applied in a more perpendicular manner allowing the principle of leverage to be introduced into the equation and force being applied to the two balled ends unequally (each end of each wire loop - 4 balled ends per swivel, only one of which would need to slightly deform and cause failure) . The chance at getting pulled apart is reduced 50% in my opinion as one of the wire loops is now removed. The rolled barrel is likely the strongest part of the swivel in the first place. I would think it would be much harder for the stainless wire (plug thru wire) to "tear" thru the rolled barrel part of the swivel (the thickest, strongest part) than it would be for one of the "balled" ends of the wire loop to remain uncompromised and not slightly deform enough to be pulled thru the hole they rotate inside of the barrel  itself which is often not perfectly round due to the manufacturing process. Look at some swivels, often part of the "balled" wire loop can be seen even when brand new before any pressure is applied. I have pulled selected swivels apart with nothing more than my hands and pliers by rotating the wire loop exposing a larger area of one of the balled ends of the wire loops and giving a pull not even close to the pull rating of the swivel. Some very popular plugs have suffered from inconsistently manufactured swivels over the years. I called them velcro swivels. 

Edited by SC

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Posted (edited) · Report post

10 hours ago, SC said:

Swivels were designed to have equal force applied in a straight line simultaneously from both ends, not as a hook hanger where force is likely applied in a more perpendicular manner allowing the principle of leverage to be introduced into the equation and force being applied to the two balled ends unequally

I really don't know anything about swivel design but this concept is exactly what got me thinking about it. 

 

For example, a lot of the barrel on this BM needle is exposed.  Some superstrikes and gibbs I have show a lot more .  Its probably strong enough for any striper but over time and with any corrosion I imagine it could fail under the perpendicular force you describe.

 

Screenshot_20200918-153344_Gallery.jpg.3da24eeea27c094cf66d5f3afcfb8f5c.jpg

 

 

Edited by Bait Tailer

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On 9/12/2020 at 10:05 AM, SC said:

Larger swivels can be used in smaller diameter plugs by cutting the loop off one end and drilling the barrel of the swivel  

Once you cut the loop of do you leave the tag ends of the wire loop inside the barrel of the swivel? I am not sure how to get them out.  The red arrow is where you would drill with a 1/16in drill bit I assume, but I am having trouble drilling through with the loose tags of the cut off loop inside the barrel.

AD25E026-6DF6-49FE-A53F-BDC1A35FD6D9.jpeg

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Posted (edited) · Report post

4 hours ago, Bait Tailer said:

I really don't know anything about swivel design but this concept is exactly what got me thinking about it. 

 

For example, a lot of the barrel on this BM needle is exposed.  Some superstrikes and gibbs I have show a lot more .  Its probably strong enough for any striper but over time and with any corrosion I imagine it could fail under the perpendicular force you describe.

 

Screenshot_20200918-153344_Gallery.jpg.3da24eeea27c094cf66d5f3afcfb8f5c.jpg

 

 

Here’s a photo of one of bill wetzels superstrike darters.  I am sure this thing must have slayed fish but with the fulcrum mostly likely from the belly hook in the fishes mouth and the tail hook in the gills while the fish is swimming away from you. The Rasco swivel completely bent and too make it even worse corroded.

image.jpg

image.jpg

Edited by t_man7

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