Fadetoblack188

under standing braid line strength

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I am confused on braided line strength.  If your reel drag is rated for 20 lbs.  Wouldn't putting 40 pound braid on the reel be a waste?  The drag will work and pull before the line would break anyway no?

 

Unless your looking to use the bigger line for resistance to breaking off on rocks and such.

 

 

so if i am eeling in the fall off my boat.  I could catch a 50 pound striper with my 20 pound test and 22lb rated reel as long as a rock doesn't rip the line correct?

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You want the drag to work before the line breaks. As a general rule Drag should be set at 1/4 to 1/3 of Line breaking strength. So 10 to 14 lbs. for 40 lb. line. 

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I like to use line that is about twice as strong as the amount of drag I plan on using.

 

I might go a little bit strong in some cases just to decrease break-offs and help me pull free from snags by breaking off a weaker mono leader.

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 drag force means nothing,adjust your drag to your line strength and go fishing.

just because you can go to 30lbs of drag does not mean you should use it.

you'll prolly tear off any fish that gets on your line.

no need to go extreme,doing that one too many times and something will suffer a failure,,,,,,sooner or later.

HH

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8 mins ago, Heavy Hooksetter said:

 drag force means nothing,adjust your drag to your line strength and go fishing.

just because you can go to 30lbs of drag does not mean you should use it.

you'll prolly tear off any fish that gets on your line.

no need to go extreme,doing that one too many times and something will suffer a failure,,,,,,sooner or later.

HH

Lol coming from a heavy hooksetter! I agree... I tend to use a lot of drag when the fish/shark is running and I don’t want to get spooled. Leader and main line broke as many times as I landed big fish/shark.

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13 mins ago, Heavy Hooksetter said:

 drag force means nothing,adjust your drag to your line strength and go fishing.

just because you can go to 30lbs of drag does not mean you should use it.

you'll prolly tear off any fish that gets on your line.

no need to go extreme,doing that one too many times and something will suffer a failure,,,,,,sooner or later.

HH

 

You are right, but I still like knowing that even at max drag I am at 50% of a lines abs.

 

There have been times I have maxed out a reel's drag like when fighting rays or sharks.

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5 mins ago, Heavy Hooksetter said:

 drag force means nothing,adjust your drag to your line strength and go fishing.

just because you can go to 30lbs of drag does not mean you should use it.

you'll prolly tear off any fish that gets on your line.

no need to go extreme,doing that one too many times and something will suffer a failure,,,,,,sooner or later.

HH

+1

 

I don't know of anyone who has had their undamaged braid break due to the force of anything stretching it enough to cause a break.  Nicked or abraded line is a different story, of course.  Many of my New England friends and I use braid *labeled* for 40# Break Strength (note that many braids have actual BSs that are 25% more than the labeled BS) for our rocky shorelines.  Some of us got to 50 or 60# labeled BSs when eeling boulder fields.  In both situations, it's more for recognizing that the lines will be abraded/nicked on rocks, mussel beds and other debris.  If I fished primarily beaches I would not hesitate to use 30# BS line.  

 

As HH pointed out, something's gonna give if you crank it down too much.  Tearing off is one option.  Straightened hooks is another, as is a broken leader.  If I was using plastic swimmers, I'd bear in mind that the hook holders can be torn out of the bodies.  Add broken rods, just for good measure.  

 

 

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11 hours ago, Fadetoblack188 said:

I am confused on braided line strength.  If your reel drag is rated for 20 lbs.  Wouldn't putting 40 pound braid on the reel be a waste?  The drag will work and pull before the line would break anyway no?

 

Unless your looking to use the bigger line for resistance to breaking off on rocks and such.

 

 

so if i am eeling in the fall off my boat.  I could catch a 50 pound striper with my 20 pound test and 22lb rated reel as long as a rock doesn't rip the line correct?

Good 20# braid likely has a breaking strength above 40# anyway, so really a good 10# line would work by that logic. At the end of last year I was fishing 15# super braid on a Daiwa SBB and hooked into a much bigger fish than I expected to find, and ended up losing ground on the fish with a fully locked drag and ended up bending the spool shaft by palming the spool for 30 seconds trying to stop the fish. Ended up losing the fish once it made it to structure and broke me off. Stronger line would have only helped me if it was able to withstand the abrasion, but probably not. 

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You make some good observations.  Two comments,

 

Braid is not very abrasion resistant which is why many use a monofilament top shot when fishing near structure.

 

You'll need some margin for for quick head shakes and a potentially non-ideal drag that could be a little sticky.  How much margin is up to you.  Your rod will absorb some of this as well.

 

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Your line rating is the breaking strength of the line. Your drag rating is an estimate of the failing point of your reel and there is a third number involved, which is the rod rating- the failure point of the rod. (You have a leader, too, but I will ignore that here). 
 

A fisherman puts together a system of rod, reel, line and leader using these parameters that allows him to manage where his anticipated failure will be. As line is cheapest and most heavily abused- hopefully, we typically use the line as the failure point. 
 

When you fight a fish, your rod acts to add pressure to the fish, and it will bend to absorb the stress of the fish. This action relieves pressure on the reel but adds pressure to the line. You rod adds sufficient pressure that if it takes five pounds of force to make your drag slip off the reel, ten pounds of force are required to pull the same drag off the rod tip. 
 

When your drag starts slipping, it relieves the excess force being put on your reel, but it is not perfect and doesn’t completely relieve the extra stresses. Setting your drag at a 5 pound straight pull does not imply that 5 ponds is the maximum force that will be applied to your drag. 
 

After years of trial and error, a rule of thumb was developed that you should set you drag to about a quarter to a third of the value of your weakest link. Because braids do not stretch, you err towards a quarter; with smaller diameter monos, you would head towards a third.

 

For your example, assuming you are using a rod rated 20-40, you would set your drag at somewhere between 5 and 7 off the rod tip, or 3-4 off the reel. This would be to accommodate your line. 
 

Last night I took a light rod with a heavier reel and line. I set my drag to 3 pounds to respect the rating of my rod. Last night was unusual for me, because 90% of the time I use relatively heavier equipment with a light leader, so I set my drag to 15-20% of my leader off my reel, which should have me at about a third off my rod tip. 

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1 hour ago, Sir Defyable said:

Good 20# braid likely has a breaking strength above 40# anyway, so really a good 10# line would work by that logic. At the end of last year I was fishing 15# super braid on a Daiwa SBB and hooked into a much bigger fish than I expected to find, and ended up losing ground on the fish with a fully locked drag and ended up bending the spool shaft by palming the spool for 30 seconds trying to stop the fish. Ended up losing the fish once it made it to structure and broke me off. Stronger line would have only helped me if it was able to withstand the abrasion, but probably not. 

 

In the controlled setting of a lab yes good braid over tests quite a bit.

 

Once you tie a knot in your braid that 20lb braid is not going to be breaking at 40lbs, even of you are attaching that braided mainline to mono with an FG knot.

 

 

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42 mins ago, Sweetwater said:

Your line rating is the breaking strength of the line. Your drag rating is an estimate of the failing point of your reel and there is a third number involved, which is the rod rating- the failure point of the rod. (You have a leader, too, but I will ignore that here). 
 

A fisherman puts together a system of rod, reel, line and leader using these parameters that allows him to manage where his anticipated failure will be. As line is cheapest and most heavily abused- hopefully, we typically use the line as the failure point. 
 

When you fight a fish, your rod acts to add pressure to the fish, and it will bend to absorb the stress of the fish. This action relieves pressure on the reel but adds pressure to the line. You rod adds sufficient pressure that if it takes five pounds of force to make your drag slip off the reel, ten pounds of force are required to pull the same drag off the rod tip. 
 

When your drag starts slipping, it relieves the excess force being put on your reel, but it is not perfect and doesn’t completely relieve the extra stresses. Setting your drag at a 5 pound straight pull does not imply that 5 ponds is the maximum force that will be applied to your drag. 
 

After years of trial and error, a rule of thumb was developed that you should set you drag to about a quarter to a third of the value of your weakest link. Because braids do not stretch, you err towards a quarter; with smaller diameter monos, you would head towards a third.

 

For your example, assuming you are using a rod rated 20-40, you would set your drag at somewhere between 5 and 7 off the rod tip, or 3-4 off the reel. This would be to accommodate your line. 
 

Last night I took a light rod with a heavier reel and line. I set my drag to 3 pounds to respect the rating of my rod. Last night was unusual for me, because 90% of the time I use relatively heavier equipment with a light leader, so I set my drag to 15-20% of my leader off my reel, which should have me at about a third off my rod tip. 

 

You are right that a rod, reel, and line are part of a complete system. 

 

Myself, I don't bother measuring drag unless I am using a lever drag.

 

I set the drag by feel only. The drag shouldn't slip easy on hook sets and the drag shouldn't slip when cranking in lures or bait and weight.

 

 

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3 hours ago, hobbyisterisis said:

Lol coming from a heavy hooksetter! I agree... I tend to use a lot of drag when the fish/shark is running and I don’t want to get spooled. Leader and main line broke as many times as I landed big fish/shark.

haha,well,,umm yeah,got that nic from trying to stand them big gators on their head when they hit the plug.

still and all,I would never fish with my drag at it's most intense setting,makes no sense to me at all.

wouldn't even go half way.

HH

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3 hours ago, Beastly Backlash said:

 

You are right, but I still like knowing that even at max drag I am at 50% of a lines abs.

 

There have been times I have maxed out a reel's drag like when fighting rays or sharks.

the thought of doing such has never crossed my mind.

if it works for you then why not do it.

HH

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