CWitek

ASMFC votes to move forward with new striped bass amendment

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53 mins ago, MikeK said:

CWitek

Do you think a petition calling for a moratorium would carry any weight? 

No.

 

Spawning stock biomass is about 3 to 4 times what it was in 1980; talking about a moratorium will only cause angkers to loose credibility.  Remember that there are people talking about reducing the biomass target and increasing the fishing mortality rate.  While they seem to be in a minority, they’re still influencing the conversation.

 

What we need to be pushing now is striped bass abundance, and the importance of abundance to buoy only recreational fishermen, but to the recreational industry as a whole.  Simply, if people can catch fish, more people fish, they fish more often, and generate more economic activity.  A lot of managers are beginning to get that, and we need to constantly reinforce the point.

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Anyone who wants to get involved in striped bass conservation would do well to visit the website of the American Saltwater Guides Association. While a new alliance, the ASGA is beginning to gain critical mass and traction. You can make a donation to the cause, sign up for their e-newsletter so you can stay informed, and be a part of actual change.

 

Steve Culton

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1 hour ago, John P said:

Thx for that info I will look them up. Do you know who the founders of the organization are and back ground?

Yes.  I’ll send you a PM.

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CWitek,

 

Thanks for response.  I guess that would be jumping the gun a bit.  Its just frustrating watching the fishery go down the crapper again, while members of the ASMFC look for ways to continue to exploit the resource.  Especially knowing that they chose to take a different approach, rather than using  the management tool that was proven successful last time.

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On 8/6/2020 at 5:17 PM, jk20a3 said:

..........I'm usually for the old school way of things but I cant wait until some of these old salts go the way of the dodo..........

 

Wishing for what should be cherished members of our society to be dead and gone just so there can be more fish to catch for fun........

 

Just think about that.

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6 hours ago, CWitek said:

Although everyone  still needs to realize that if they submit what is essentially a form letter, the ASMFC will batch them all together as so many iterations of the same letter, and give them far less weight than individual missives.

Was this the problem with last year’s round of public input/comment letters leading up to the slot reg decision? I tried to find the post and document tallying letters received and anglers size limit preferences but couldn’t find it - only remember a dismal number of responses. 

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8 mins ago, Bait Tailer said:

Was this the problem with last year’s round of public input/comment letters leading up to the slot reg decision? I tried to find the post and document tallying letters received and anglers size limit preferences but couldn’t find it - only remember a dismal number of responses. 

Some organizations wrote comment letters for their members with respect to Amendment VI, and in the summary of public comments prepared for the management board there were remarks like “we received copies of this form letter from 17 different individuals,” etc.

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26 mins ago, Bait Tailer said:

Exactly thanks. I couldnt remember the breakdown of input but found it here.  http://www.asmfc.org/files/Meetings/78AnnualMeeting/AtlanticStripedBassSupplemental.pdf3DC42234-AA44-422D-BC94-F355E0F6F427.jpeg.1bac6f490d055ce97ba673db7e2b411b.jpeg

 

Very fuzzy on how the management decision making process works.  I need a big picture idiots guide to ASMFC structure and protocol.  

 

There really is no protocol.  Somebody makes a motion—which was often discussed with others at some earlier point—it is seconded, and voted on.  The motion is usually something not too outlandish, but it doesn’t necessarily accord with the bulk of the public comment, the science, or the best long-term interests of the stock (although sometimes it accords with all of this things, with Wednesday’s menhaden vote an example).

 

Then, if the vote favors a conservative approach, New Jersey’s Governor’s Appointee will argue that the comments all cane from “Internet fishermen,” while the “real fishermen” that he talks to all want to keep killing a lot of fish.  He will also note that “the science is wrong,” and that, in a few years, the regression analysis will show that we didn’t need to make any reductions, and we stopped people from taking more bass home without a good reason.

 

If the management board votes for the conservation measure anyway, one of the two appointees will rise and complain that the vote was unfair, and make a motion to give New Jersey special privileges not enjoyed by other states, and since, by that time, the meeting has been going on for five or eight hours, and everybody is tired and wants a few beers, they decide that it’s better to throw the whining delegation a pacifier rather than risk an hours-long tantrum, New Jersey gets all or at least some of what it wants, and the management plan is weakened by a greater or lesser amount as a result.

 

That’s more or less the protocol that has been followed since at least 2003, and possibly longer.

 

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4 hours ago, JoeyZac said:

 

Wishing for what should be cherished members of our society to be dead and gone just so there can be more fish to catch for fun........

 

Just think about that.

You said dead not me, I was referring to a mentality that needs to move on like countless other trades/ways of life have done OR evolve. 

Edited by jk20a3

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1 hour ago, CWitek said:

That’s more or less the protocol that has been followed

Explains the mess.  So it really is all about yelling the loudest and swaying the appointees. they are free to vote whichever way they feel represents the interests in their state and their only real accountability is to the governor? hypothetically NJ and MD representatives could receive thousands of letters requesting a conservation approach and just ignore them?

 

Also I’m assuming NMFS and USFWS mostly abstain and are only there for the technical and sub committee work?  

 

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Pretty much.

 

There are no legal standards that the ASMFC must adhere to, and its decisions aren’t subject to judicial review.  That, in itself, explains a lot about why we are wherever are.

 

The federal agencies often abstain, but they also have historically added a lot to the debate, although that has been less the case over the past few years.

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4 hours ago, jk20a3 said:

You said dead not me, I was referring to a mentality that needs to move on like countless other trades/ways of life have done OR evolve. 

 

Hey, if you want to walk it back now that you've been called on it, fine, but you said "old salts," not "the mentality of these old salts."

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On 8/8/2020 at 7:41 PM, CWitek said:

Pretty much.

 

There are no legal standards that the ASMFC must adhere to, and its decisions aren’t subject to judicial review.  That, in itself, explains a lot about why we are wherever are.

 

The federal agencies often abstain, but they also have historically added a lot to the debate, although that has been less the case over the past few years.

The Jersey commissioners are some real cartoon characters, I guess it's an honor to be an online angler? Online, as in, seeking and sharing information? Ok then! The real anglers they get their pulse reading from must also be some cartoons like ol' Bob The Garbage Man *

 

Edited by TimS
video removed - let's please try to keep this on topic - thanks

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