CWitek

ASMFC votes to move forward with new striped bass amendment

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Too late for compromise IMO, as I said we need to impose draconian measures upon ourselves. I do consider 6 packs and charters to be comm ventures  as well, repeat trips in the same day to BI to slaughter breeders. Take the $ off their heads and simplify the solution. But what do i know...

Lived thru last crash but I fear this is worse, I won't live long to see a recovery this time.

 

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3 mins ago, afterhours said:

Lived thru last crash but I fear this is worse, I won't live long to see a recovery this time.

 

This is what I keep thinking.  While I don't think we're in a worse place yet, a few more bad spawns could put us there if folks don't do what's needed.

 

And I probably won't live to see the stock recover, given that it took about twenty years the last time.  If I'm still around at that point, there's a good chance that I won't be bouncing around on boats any more.

 

That does make the debate kind of personal.

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If catch and release is killing all the fish, why not do away with catch and release for a while?   Make it catch and keep only, one fish per day, any size.   That way all the folks sitting on the beaches catching and killing small fish all day with small j hooks and small bait will have to make a decision, if they want a big fish, they have to switch to big fish tackle, otherwise they can catch their schoolie in ten minutes and go home, killing just one fish instead of a dozen that day?   

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1 hour ago, CWitek said:

 

Not to mention the fact that, when you're dealing with policymakers, you immediately gain credibility when you stand up and say "cut my catch" as opposed to "close their fishery, but don't shut down mine."

Out of all the bass that don't survive C&R, what are the top contributing factors to death? What is the biggest culprit? 

 

How do you get a consensus voice of anglers to say "cut my catch?" Who would deliver that message IF there were an anglers consensus agreement? 

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17 mins ago, Juan Nabers said:

Out of all the bass that don't survive C&R, what are the top contributing factors to death? What is the biggest culprit? 

 

How do you get a consensus voice of anglers to say "cut my catch?" Who would deliver that message IF there were an anglers consensus agreement? 

Gut hooking, exhausting fish with too-light tackle in warm, low-salinity water, and bad handling in all its forms are the primary issues.  No one had identified the biggest issue, but I would guess that gut hooking is probably the largest single contributor, with bad handling in second place.

 

You never get a consensus voice.  There will always be people who, for one reason or another, want something else--or want nothjing at all.  Instead, you base your arguments on the best available science.  And it's up to all of us to deliver the message.  If enough people make comments saying essentially the same thing, those comments become the consensus.  In my experience, be cautious of any group who wants to deliver the message on your behalf.  They usually have their own reasons for doing so, and in the long run, those reasons may very well not be the same as yours.

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Oops this turned into a rant.  I fully acknowledge my opinions represent an ‘I’m not the problem it’s other anglers’ frustration and I need to do more reading but....

 

I think it would be tough to make seasonal closures fair for anglers across a state let alone regions.  If the NY season opened June 1st and closed in October 31st I miss the best local windows for a trophy fish.  Sure everyone out Long Island would have a great season but I would be livid.  Protecting spawning locations and entry/exit points seems reasonable but then so would closing fishing at other crucial migration bottlenecks and intercepts like the canal montauk and block island.

 

Also been thinking about the umbrella classification of recreational anglers with regard to release mortality rates.  Does an educated angler passionate about the fish treat them the same as a someone casually spiking a rod with J hooked sandworms waiting for the bells to ring during a weekend beach day? Or someone hauling schoolies up on their once a season party boat trip? Or someone paying to sit around and wait for their captain to put them on a mojo or bunker spoon cow? The worst fish handling I’ve seen myself has been on charter and party boats, mostly from anglers who are bitter about not being able to keep their 35+” fish.  I know some of my released stripers die. Even only using single hook jigs and plugs and making sure their fins are up and they need to fight to get out of my grip.  

 

It drives me crazy to watch all those party and charter boats drive by knowing most aren’t doing the same.  I know when I check their posts I’ll see another 50 to 100 dead fish and think about all the careless releases on multiple trips every day of the season.  Right now they’re hammering them in Verrazano narrows.  Every night a half dozen boats anchored up with a different group of ‘recreational’ anglers decimating the same school of hunkered down resident fish in 80+ degree water, gaffing and not reviving fish outside the slot.
 

Obviously everyone has the same right to the fish and I’m completely biased and venting, but think the type of angler, angler’s experience and method of fishing deserves more recognition in conversations about recreational release mortality.  Basically I would love to know which groups do the most damage when where and how.  I don’t like the idea of pitting groups against each other but I think it’s important to consider their relative impact if we’re trying to figure out an effective way to reduce recreational release mortality.  I’ve read some of the older studies on fishing methods water temp and salinity. Do we have any on landings or release mortality between different groups of anglers and their relative impact on the stock?

 

Maybe the new MA study gives us a better picture.  Unfortunately I can’t see new regulations making much of a difference without stronger education outreach and enforcement efforts. At the very least more signs at popular fishing locations and docks like we have for sharks, sturgeon, birds and other protected species.  Ideally more enforcement and higher penalties at the docks and beaches. The number of anglers who were unaware of or ignored the new slot this spring shocked me.  Fear the same for circle hooks regs.


I feel for everyone who went through this before. I’m frustrated and only started following and really caring about the issue a few years ago.  Hopefully someday I’ll find my 50 but would rather see a moratorium before more toothless half measures.  Or a push to blow up the entire ASMFC management system and replace it with a science based conservation plan that actually prioritizes a healthy biomass.

 

Edited by Bait Tailer

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7 hours ago, CWitek said:

If enough people make comments saying essentially the same thing, those comments become the consensus. 

Labor unions do a pretty good job of giving their members email templates & phone call scripts to blitz legislators and governors.  You've given some solid bullet points here on what to focus messaging on-- would you be willing to share an advocacy letter with us? It's something that could be posted as a rallying cry. Anglers need to be inspired to speak up.

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6 hours ago, Bait Tailer said:

Do we have any on landings or release mortality between different groups of anglers and their relative impact on the stock?

These would be really interesting dots to connect... I'm sure tackle manufacturers don't want you to know what does the most damage. 

 

What if there were a Northeast Alliance that targeted commissioners from NY, CT, RI, MA, RI, MA to form a conservation block against Jersey & the Chesapeake? 

 

Education & communication among angers is cricially key. If it could be shown that certain rigs/ systems do way more harm then others we could have a more direct conversation within the angling community. 

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6 hours ago, Juan Nabers said:

Labor unions do a pretty good job of giving their members email templates & phone call scripts to blitz legislators and governors.  You've given some solid bullet points here on what to focus messaging on-- would you be willing to share an advocacy letter with us? It's something that could be posted as a rallying cry. Anglers need to be inspired to speak up.

When the time comes, yes.

 

Although everyone  still needs to realize that if they submit what is essentially a form letter, the ASMFC will batch them all together as so many iterations of the same letter, and give them far less weight than individual missives.

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6 hours ago, Juan Nabers said:

These would be really interesting dots to connect... I'm sure tackle manufacturers don't want you to know what does the most damage. 

 

What if there were a Northeast Alliance that targeted commissioners from NY, CT, RI, MA, RI, MA to form a conservation block against Jersey & the Chesapeake? 

 

Education & communication among angers is cricially key. If it could be shown that certain rigs/ systems do way more harm then others we could have a more direct conversation within the angling community. 

Some of that may come out in the second year of the Massachusetts study that is being conducted right now.  Massachusetts will be looking at circle hooks, j hooks, treble hooks, baits and lures, with fish tagged with acoustic tags that will give a good picture of long-term survival in the real world, rather than in the enclosures used in previous studies.

 

As far as blocs go, a de facto northeastern bloc has already emerged, although it has internal disagreements on some issues.

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17 hours ago, CWitek said:

 

 

 but if we want to know who does the most harm to the bass stock, we all need to stand in front of a mirror and ppint straight ahead.

 

hence my personal moratorium on fishing for stripers,should shut it down completely for fishing for them for 8-10yrs,ppl don't/won't accept personal responsibility w/o being forced to

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This situation will solve itself,but in a bad way.  When  the Bass are basically  all gone there will be a personal moratorium as in"haven't caught a fish this month I quite fishing for Bass". There it is now over .  The average fisherman who doesn't catch anything just gives up eventually.  My fishing days this year are about !/3 of last year and 90% lower than 5years ago.

It pains me to say,but Taking boat rides at 5AM or walking the beaches at night gets a little old when nothing happens.  I am a c/r fisherman about to turn 78 next month.  I'm going to start breaking out the fly rods and  fish for trout.

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26 mins ago, John P said:

I'm going to start breaking out the fly rods and  fish for trout.

Went down that same road 3 years ago and dont regret it.  Due to Covid the rivers are packed this year, which has forced me to abandon tried and true pools in the tmas and explore new water.  I find it rewarding and it makes for good exercise.

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3 mins ago, MikeK said:

CWitek

Do you think a petition calling for a moratorium would carry any weight? 

I think a  moratorium would be good thing if we can't achieve gamefish status. BTW i think the ASMFC has to go away when it comes to SB mgmt.

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