TidesRight32

Land Based Sharks and Stingrays

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I’ve been targeting sharks from the beach the last 2 years and recently have been fishing in some more unconventional waters. Was wondering if anyone who has more experience with browns/sand tigers have noticed a correlation between these kinds of sharks from the beach and sting rays. Haven’t had any luck in these particular spots with sharks but recently caught a large roughtail sting ray and was wondering if this could be a positive sign that browns/sand tigers could be in the area. Would love to hear your thoughts. 

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Depends on the type of stingray. Cow nosed rays, which are the commonest around here, feed on shellfish, so catching one doesn't indicate anything with respect to Sandbar and sand tiger sharks which feed on other fish.

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7 mins ago, MakoMike said:

Depends on the type of stingray. Cow nosed rays, which are the commonest around here, feed on shellfish, so catching one doesn't indicate anything with respect to Sandbar and sand tiger sharks which feed on other fish.

Got a large roughtail, which I believe feed on similar prey as browns/sandbars. So I’m thinking it’s a good sign but was curious to hear others thoughts.

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3 hours ago, TidesRight32 said:

Got a large roughtail, which I believe feed on similar prey as browns/sandbars. So I’m thinking it’s a good sign but was curious to hear others thoughts.

Found this "the roughtail stingray is a generalist predator that feeds on a variety of benthic invertebrates and bony fishes."

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Are you targeting those protected species under a research permit? My understanding was targeting them was prohibited, even for catch and release. 

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3 hours ago, Milky said:

Are you targeting those protected species under a research permit? My understanding was targeting them was prohibited, even for catch and release.  
 

They will be prohibited soon enough but not right at the moment. Only prohibited from harvest. All it will take is another shark or two to wash up dead on a beach from some yahoo and then it will be shut down just like they did in NJ  So my advice is if you want to shark fish, troll the beaches at night and ask questions if you see anyone. Plenty to read up on that has been posted in the archives. Should give you all you need to know. There are over 70 pages in one thread alone 

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39 mins ago, Dthfrmabove said:
4 hours ago, Milky said:

Are you targeting those protected species under a research permit? My understanding was targeting them was prohibited, even for catch and release.  
 

They will be prohibited soon enough but not right at the moment. Only prohibited from harvest. All it will take is another shark or two to wash up dead on a beach from some yahoo and then it will be shut down just like they did in NJ  So my advice is if you want to shark fish, troll the beaches at night and ask questions if you see anyone. Plenty to read up on that has been posted in the archives. Should give you all you need to know. There are over 70 pages in one thread alone 

I gave a quick scan of the archive and saw where someone else linked the regs and you made the claim that the regs only applies to commercial fishermen. You gave that apparently as an opinion and it was apparently accepted as fact and the conversation turned to fishing methods. I, being pressed for time, didn't then read on from there.

However I believe you were mistaken. The following federal regs can be found on this page: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=5ae2c3e07a0643e275173399ea0f559f&mc=true&node=se50.12.635_171&rgn=div8

 

Under "prohibitions";

"(2) Fish for, catch, possess, retain, land, or sell Atlantic HMS without the appropriate valid vessel permit with the appropriate endorsements, LAP, EFP, scientific research permit, display permit, chartering permit, or shark research permit on board the vessel, as specified in §§635.4 and 635.32."

(HMS stands for "Highly Migratory Species" which includes sand tigers)

 

Those regs apply to recreational as well as commercial fishing. I assume the mention of a "vessel" reflects the fact that shore based fishing was not specifically addressed. Nevertheless, the phrase "fish for, catch, possess, retain, land..." pretty much makes targeting them illegal. 

 

For further clarification the PDF attched specifically states the regs apply to recreational as well as commercial fishermen. 

 

in Ma: 

https://www.mass.gov/service-details/recreational-saltwater-fishing-regulations

"Prohibited Species
The following species are prohibited from harvest:
Silky, Sandbar, Sand tiger, Bigeye sand tiger, Whale, Basking, White, Dusky, Bignose, Galapagos, Night, Caribbean reef, Narrowtooth, Caribbean sharpnose, Smalltail, Atlantic angel, Longfin mako, Bigeye thresher, Sharpnose sevengill, Bluntnose sixgill, Bigeye sixgill"

 

 

ML12240A310.pdf

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Thank you very much for milky. The law you copied and pasted pertains to boat fishing only with no mention of shore based at all. I mistakenly lumped in commercial fishermen with the recreational anglers In the post when I saw HMS mentioned. The only

people I know who have HMS permits are charter captains who I consider commercial fishermen. There are no permits required to fish for brown sharks from the shore The OP never mentioned anything about a boat before or after. I could be wrong but I really don’t have time to scroll back through years of posts to try and prove a point   
    Plus  considering the fact that I fish with scientists who are working on a grant from the NOAA on a catch and release mortality study on the effects land based fishing has on  brown sharks. They work closely with fishermen who specifically fish for brown sharks From shore and as far as the NOAA is concerned it is not illegal to fish for brown sharks from shore . In fact there is a tagging program run by them since the late 60’s that gives tags to shore fishermen in MA for tracking and data studies

  I was just with the lead scientist last night and he told me that a while ago some long line fisherman in FLA caught a tagged shark. It was tagged in the 70’s !!!! 
  Now federally they are protected, but each individual state has their own guidelines within their shores out to I think is the 3 mile mark. I am pretty certain after 3 miles it becomes federal waters. Please correct me if I am wrong on this. Like I said a grey area within the guidelines it is up to each individual state to set the laws pertaining to their waters and right now MA does not have a law against fishing for   Brown sharks from shore 

 please make note that I am not affiliated or work for the NOAA or any other company. I do not possess any special permits or work under and grants from the gov. I am just a fisherman who was introduced to these guys because of what I fish for in the summer months We have had police, EPOs and scientists with us coming down to the beaches where we fish. When we have had fish and released them 

  The top one is a quick pic of one of the satellite tags being put on a recent shark I caught this year. The bottom pic is one from last year where I had just met them on the beach that night    
  The whole process is documented by them. Time of catch. How long the fight lasted till beaching, time it took to put the tag on and total time till safe release. Tides, gear used which includes rod,reel line and type of hook. Also documented is where the hook was lodged in the mouth. Pretty interesting stuff to see and the do. 
  If you have any other questions please PM me and I will gladly put you in touch with the appropriate contacts at the NOAA who handle the tagging program. They can better clarify the rules and regulations pertaining to shore based brown shark fishing within MA waters 

0477C374-83FA-4BE4-894F-27685A4F80DE.jpeg

0E6913CC-4AB0-406F-9F4D-D5D128AD3E2C.jpeg

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Posted (edited) · Report post

There are plenty of people out there who think it’s a fun idea to try and catch a shark. I can’t say this enough. If you don’t know what you are doing you have no business fishing for these things. 2questions I always ask are the following 

 

1. What type of gear do you have. Some get pretty big and the last thing you want to do is leave 50 yds of trailing line with a weight and hook attached to this thing because your gear is t strong enough 

 

2. What are you going to do with it if you do land it ??  Do you have a fishing partner to help you. Pliers , de hooking tool ? Any of those tools at your disposal when you land the fish. You just don’t want to cut the hook. They take forever to rust out and can cause permanent damage to the fishes mouth. This thing isn’t a striper that you can lip and put back in the water. Some of these things will take a digit from your hand. Be smart about it and find someone who knows what they are doing to teach you the right way to handle these fish  

Edited by Dthfrmabove

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6 hours ago, Milky said:

Those regs apply to recreational as well as commercial fishing. I assume the mention of a "vessel" reflects the fact that shore based fishing was not specifically addressed. Nevertheless, the phrase "fish for, catch, possess, retain, land..." pretty much makes targeting them illegal. 

c3b18810-130b-4c41-8836-756efea547c9_text_hi.gif

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Posted (edited) · Report post

1 hour ago, Dthfrmabove said:

Thank you very much for milky. The law you copied and pasted pertains to boat fishing only with no mention of shore based at all. I mistakenly lumped in commercial fishermen with the recreational anglers In the post when I saw HMS mentioned. The only

people I know who have HMS permits are charter captains who I consider commercial fishermen. There are no permits required to fish for brown sharks from the shore The OP never mentioned anything about a boat before or after. I could be wrong but I really don’t have time to scroll back through years of posts to try and prove a point   
    Plus  considering the fact that I fish with scientists who are working on a grant from the NOAA on a catch and release mortality study on the effects land based fishing has on  brown sharks. They work closely with fishermen who specifically fish for brown sharks From shore and as far as the NOAA is concerned it is not illegal to fish for brown sharks from shore . In fact there is a tagging program run by them since the late 60’s that gives tags to shore fishermen in MA for tracking and data studies

  I was just with the lead scientist last night and he told me that a while ago some long line fisherman in FLA caught a tagged shark. It was tagged in the 70’s !!!! 
  Now federally they are protected, but each individual state has their own guidelines within their shores out to I think is the 3 mile mark. I am pretty certain after 3 miles it becomes federal waters. Please correct me if I am wrong on this. Like I said a grey area within the guidelines it is up to each individual state to set the laws pertaining to their waters and right now MA does not have a law against fishing for   Brown sharks from shore 

 please make note that I am not affiliated or work for the NOAA or any other company. I do not possess any special permits or work under and grants from the gov. I am just a fisherman who was introduced to these guys because of what I fish for in the summer months We have had police, EPOs and scientists with us coming down to the beaches where we fish. When we have had fish and released them 

  The top one is a quick pic of one of the satellite tags being put on a recent shark I caught this year. The bottom pic is one from last year where I had just met them on the beach that night    
  The whole process is documented by them. Time of catch. How long the fight lasted till beaching, time it took to put the tag on and total time till safe release. Tides, gear used which includes rod,reel line and type of hook. Also documented is where the hook was lodged in the mouth. Pretty interesting stuff to see and the do. 
  If you have any other questions please PM me and I will gladly put you in touch with the appropriate contacts at the NOAA who handle the tagging program. They can better clarify the rules and regulations pertaining to shore based brown shark fishing within MA waters 

0477C374-83FA-4BE4-894F-27685A4F80DE.jpeg

0E6913CC-4AB0-406F-9F4D-D5D128AD3E2C.jpeg

Thanks for your reply and food for thought. It definitely is a topic which has gotten me confused. In particular why federal regulations would not apply in Massachusetts. What I could find from Massachusetts is only that the species in question are protected from harvest. Nothing on recreational c&r fishing. An attempt to dig deeper into the state web sites only lead me around in circles. I would contact them but the website says they're closed due to covid.

I did send an email to the regional office for NOAA. If I get a response I will post it here.

 

As far as the work you and other rec fishermen do to assist the NOAA scientists, I assume you/they would be covered under their permits. I know that's how it has worked for me when I have done volunteer citizen science work with fish and reptiles in Ma. I worked with individuals who held research permits and was allowed to collect under their permits. 

Needless to say, that would not be the same as a recreational angler targeting protected species for fun.

Edited by Milky

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