sinfish

bucktail tying question GSP thread

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I've tied countless bucktail jigs in the past using "D" thread but in an effort to clean up lure collar I'm trying 150 GSP thread.  My first one looked great. I could really tighten down on the material and the collar looked better than anything I ever tied.  My problem is that the hairs easily pull out.  I suspect this stuff is slippery like braided line on a reel without a layer of mono or tape.  Any suggestions by the bucktail folks here?

 

thanks

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I find gel spun thread to be slippery when working with bucktail. It also can cut through the hair when tightening down.  
 

Waspi’s Ultra Thread in 140 denier has worked for me. It is supposed to have a breaking strength around 2 pounds and holds the hair well. 
 

you can also look for threads in the 3/0 range like Uni thread waxed, which is about 240 denier making it thicker and stronger than the 140. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Just use cheap ass thread and crazy glue . Bucktails are disposable, don’t over think it , they don’t have to pretty to catch . 
 

I use 2lbs mono most the time 

Edited by Wire For Fire

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9 mins ago, sinfish said:

I've tied countless bucktail jigs in the past using "D" thread but in an effort to clean up lure collar I'm trying 150 GSP thread.  My first one looked great. I could really tighten down on the material and the collar looked better than anything I ever tied.  My problem is that the hairs easily pull out.  I suspect this stuff is slippery like braided line on a reel without a layer of mono or tape.  Any suggestions by the bucktail folks here?

 

thanks

GSP was recommended to me years ago, and I tried it. I couldn't get used to how slippery it is, so stayed with flat nylon or the heavier round nylon threads depending on what size jigs I'm tying. A lot of folks like it however. 

 

GSP thread is very strong and I know many like to use it. I'm not one of them, but if you decide to stick with it, try smaller amounts of hair at one time, and use some cement to keep everything in place. I'm not sure how much stretch that thread has, but I do know that nylon stretches which also helps lock down materials. 

 

I've got into the habit of brushing clear nail polish ( cement) on the butt ends of the hair, after I've got what amount I want on the jig and secure it with a few wraps of thread. I do mean secure too, so the hair cannot move. That leaves uncovered hair on the collar, so the nail polish helps keep it in place and get some added durability down into the thread wraps instead of just on the surface. It doesn't take much, and subsequent wraps works the polish into the hair. I believe I had read to do that in one of Lefty Kreh's books years ago. 

 

Some folks use super glue instead. I've tried that too, but it tends to wick up into the hair too much IMO and dries hard too quickly, so the thread wraps can't really compress everything to hold it all together. Gel type super glues is also used by some. IMO, then it's the glue that's holding the hair on & not the thread. Of course, if it works, I guess it's not wrong. 

 

The "cements" should not be what is securing the hair, but they will help keep it in place. The hair should not be pulling out once there's enough thread wraps to secure it, but I know at times I've had hair move & slip out while attempting to secure it. That's often the result of using too much hair at once. The cements can help keep the hair in place so perhaps give it a try.

 

As for cleaning up the collar, I cut the hair after it's secured on the jig collar, with a good pair of fine point scissors. If I need to trim a few stray hairs I use a single edge razor blade. The final thread wraps cover the butt ends of the hair so my jigs usually look pretty clean. 

 

IMO, the "trick" to tying bucktails is always in the amount of hair added at one time and using a thread strong enough for the jig size. I've made the mistake of trying to use too much hair too many times, and that's when I get hair slipping. I've watched video's of jigs being tied and good size clumps of hair are being added and then the person spends a few minutes pulling loose hairs. To me, that's wasted effort & wasted material, but too each their own. 

 

If I have to add 5 smaller clumps of hair, instead of 3 larger, I'll go with the smaller every time. Time for me is always important, as I do tie commercially, but I rather be sure the end result is solid, than worry about a few extra minutes. I can tie jigs fairly quickly anyway. From my perspective, anyone who has purchased a jig I made, doesn't care how long it took to tie it, but you can bet if hair is slipping, they won't be interested in more jigs that I tied. 

 

Even when I only tied for my own use, I sure never wanted hair falling out, so best to take the extra time & effort to prevent it.

 

GSP thread is good stuff, but is tricky to work with, so if you continue with it, take your time & try some of what I've mentioned to see if it makes a difference for you. 

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1 hour ago, Jim H said:

GSP was recommended to me years ago, and I tried it. I couldn't get used to how slippery it is, so stayed with flat nylon or the heavier round nylon threads depending on what size jigs I'm tying. A lot of folks like it however. 

 

GSP thread is very strong and I know many like to use it. I'm not one of them, but if you decide to stick with it, try smaller amounts of hair at one time, and use some cement to keep everything in place. I'm not sure how much stretch that thread has, but I do know that nylon stretches which also helps lock down materials. 

 

I've got into the habit of brushing clear nail polish ( cement) on the butt ends of the hair, after I've got what amount I want on the jig and secure it with a few wraps of thread. I do mean secure too, so the hair cannot move. That leaves uncovered hair on the collar, so the nail polish helps keep it in place and get some added durability down into the thread wraps instead of just on the surface. It doesn't take much, and subsequent wraps works the polish into the hair. I believe I had read to do that in one of Lefty Kreh's books years ago. 

 

Some folks use super glue instead. I've tried that too, but it tends to wick up into the hair too much IMO and dries hard too quickly, so the thread wraps can't really compress everything to hold it all together. Gel type super glues is also used by some. IMO, then it's the glue that's holding the hair on & not the thread. Of course, if it works, I guess it's not wrong. 

 

The "cements" should not be what is securing the hair, but they will help keep it in place. The hair should not be pulling out once there's enough thread wraps to secure it, but I know at times I've had hair move & slip out while attempting to secure it. That's often the result of using too much hair at once. The cements can help keep the hair in place so perhaps give it a try.

 

As for cleaning up the collar, I cut the hair after it's secured on the jig collar, with a good pair of fine point scissors. If I need to trim a few stray hairs I use a single edge razor blade. The final thread wraps cover the butt ends of the hair so my jigs usually look pretty clean. 

 

IMO, the "trick" to tying bucktails is always in the amount of hair added at one time and using a thread strong enough for the jig size. I've made the mistake of trying to use too much hair too many times, and that's when I get hair slipping. I've watched video's of jigs being tied and good size clumps of hair are being added and then the person spends a few minutes pulling loose hairs. To me, that's wasted effort & wasted material, but too each their own. 

 

If I have to add 5 smaller clumps of hair, instead of 3 larger, I'll go with the smaller every time. Time for me is always important, as I do tie commercially, but I rather be sure the end result is solid, than worry about a few extra minutes. I can tie jigs fairly quickly anyway. From my perspective, anyone who has purchased a jig I made, doesn't care how long it took to tie it, but you can bet if hair is slipping, they won't be interested in more jigs that I tied. 

 

Even when I only tied for my own use, I sure never wanted hair falling out, so best to take the extra time & effort to prevent it.

 

GSP thread is good stuff, but is tricky to work with, so if you continue with it, take your time & try some of what I've mentioned to see if it makes a difference for you. 

Thanks.  I'm happy to hear from someone that has used the GSP thread.  I know I can always use the other material but that was not my question.  Your experience is appreciated.  I do tie a lot of jigs and fly's.  A lot of fly tiers seem to like the stuff.  I wanted to try it.

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27 mins ago, sinfish said:

Thanks.  I'm happy to hear from someone that has used the GSP thread.  I know I can always use the other material but that was not my question.  Your experience is appreciated.  I do tie a lot of jigs and fly's.  A lot of fly tiers seem to like the stuff.  I wanted to try it.

A fellow by the name of Chris Helm recommended it to me. He passed away some years ago. You may know who he was. If not, he had a small mail order business, Whitetail Fly Tying Supplies (still in business) selling tying supplies and was a top notch tyer who was well known for his expertise with spinning deer & other similar hairs. I got a couple of spools of it from him, but as I mentioned, really didn't care for it, and was primarily because of the slipperiness issue. Chris used it a lot for his tying, with deerhair bass bugs & other similar flies.  I think if you get used to tying with it, it's as good as any other thread.

Edited by Jim H

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I'm with Wire.  I primarily fish Jamaica Bay, and lose a lot of bucktails, now that the Cow Nose Rays have moved in , I've also watched quite a few rigs heading for parts unknown. I suppose if I thought I could hold onto my bucktails, i'd be a lot more careful. For now my only extravagance is good quality hooks and powder coating. After that it's the same as Wire. Crazy Glue over the thread collar, and use an unspecified thread. But it is red! I can assure you they work, they just aren't pretty.

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I agree with those who are saying not to overthink things.

I’ve tied lots of bucktail jigs with flat waxed nylon and its has not failed me.

People use all kinds of coating for the thread wraps, to make them bombproof, but no matter how tough the coating is, the hair itself is fragile and can easily be stripped to nothing by toothy fish.

I like “Hard as Nails” best because it provides good protection for the thread and is easy to razor blade off if you want to re-use the jig head and tie it up again.

 

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Basically your technique for tying in the hairs is poor.  I see many people that tie in "clumps".  When you do that the hairs will come out when you pull on them. Does this matter to you? Maybe it doesn't and you'll have no trouble catching something before the jig gets lost to the bottom grizzle. But don't try to sell any jigs or you'll lose your customers.  Bucktail must be spread around the collar in order to be locked into place. If you tie it in clumps it's gonna come out when you pull on it because nothing is holding it in place. Worry about your technique instead of the material you're using. 

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33 mins ago, Fly By Nite said:

Basically your technique for tying in the hairs is poor.  I see many people that tie in "clumps".  When you do that the hairs will come out when you pull on them. Does this matter to you? Maybe it doesn't and you'll have no trouble catching something before the jig gets lost to the bottom grizzle. But don't try to sell any jigs or you'll lose your customers.  Bucktail must be spread around the collar in order to be locked into place. If you tie it in clumps it's gonna come out when you pull on it because nothing is holding it in place. Worry about your technique instead of the material you're using. 

Who is this reply directed to? I mentioned clumps because that's how it's cut from the tail and I do spread it around the collar. The OP never mentioned anything about selling jigs? 

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19 mins ago, Jim H said:

Who is this reply directed to? I mentioned clumps because that's how it's cut from the tail and I do spread it around the collar. The OP never mentioned anything about selling jigs? 

I was wondering the same thing.

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