Capefox

Break-offs during casting

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I was excited to try out a new Penn Carnage 12 ft 2 pc XH rod in the surf. It was paired with a Battle II 6000, 40 lb Monster-8 braided mainline, and a 15-foot 100 lb mono shock leader.  After a few decent 80-90 yard casts with a 5 oz crocodile spoon, I heard a dull crack and watched the $8 lure fly away forever; the leader to mainline double-uni had failed. Figuring the knot was snagging in the guides, I tried a slim beauty and then an Alberto, which broke-off after a handful of casts too. What is going on with the Carnage? Eyes too small to run any kind of knot involving a thick shock leader? I've heard an FG is very slim but will fail after passing through the guides. Ideas?

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How small is the tip top ring?  Years ago I started using tip tops with extra large rings to counteract break offs.  Not sure if this is your issue.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Make short leader line with knot outside of guides and test casting. whether it is guides/knot issue or not.

Edited by ksong

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11 mins ago, ksong said:

Make short leader line with knot outside of guides and test casting. whether it is guides/knot issue or not.

This. I had a similar situation. Turns out the top guide was nicked so slightly. Couldn’t even see it. 
 

Gotta do what K Song said. It could be a knot tying issue or a guide issue. 

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Any knot tied with 100 pound mono is gonna cause you problems when casting a surf rod. The knot is just way too big to pass through the tip without eventually failing. I would take the advice from ksong and make the leader short so it doesn’t have to pass through the eyes.

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bad batch of braid, too. Bail falling into place while casting, 100# mono not even close to being necessary. 

Good luck and tight lines.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

To check my guides, I've pulled a piece of not compressed cotton ball just big enough to drag in the ID of the ring. If there are any nicks or rough areas too small to see by the nude eye, a thread of cotton will remain behind.

 

Use a lighter leader, as Nite_Bite_00 said above, a 100 pound test leader is way too heavy, and unnecessary.

You could drop your leader to 30 to 50 pound and not lose any fish because of the lighter leader.

Remember, a fish cannot pull as much as 10% of it's weight.

 

Also, keep in mind the larger diameter your nylon leader is, the greater the possibility any toothy fish is going to bite the leader in two, or at the very least, nick it.

I've read about kayakers hand-lining for Great Whites and other large sharks down under, using 4 and 6 pound mono with no leader, and landing the fish. The line is too small for them to bite. (they let the shark tow them around until it gets worn out, before bringing it to the boat)

(Personally, I believe I would leave those fish alone were I in a kayak or canoe ... but to each their own, I guess.) 

A fish is also less likely to spot a smaller diameter leader or line.

 

I only used braided line on my casting reels, since my Mitchell spinning reels are not braid compatible.

I use 30 pound test hollow braided Dacron. I use a 30 pound test mono leader, spliced to the hollow braided Dacron.(one less knot to worry about failing, or not going through the guides.)

That is one big advantage of using a hollow braid line: no knots required. :)

Edited by afishhunter

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2 hours ago, sytheteacher said:

Probably the knots are are tied incorrectly... Because after every fishing trip I cut all my knots and rety my setup...

I don't think that's it because I use the double-uni and Alberto on my other rigs without issue. 

 

2 hours ago, DZ said:

How small is the tip top ring?  Years ago I started using tip tops with extra large rings to counteract break offs.  Not sure if this is your issue.

It is about 7 mm or 5/16" diameter.

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2 hours ago, Flip n Dip said:

Any knot tied with 100 pound mono is gonna cause you problems when casting a surf rod. The knot is just way too big to pass through the tip without eventually failing. I would take the advice from ksong and make the leader short so it doesn’t have to pass through the eyes.

In cases where a 6 ft long shark rub leader and 8 oz sinker are being used, what's the best way to do this? 

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I routinely fish heavy gear for sharks using both spinning and conventional. Using 80-100 lb shock leader with 65lb braid. If tied correctly, the fg knot will minimize knot to guide issues. When using a heavy mono and spinning gear, you can also occasionally get the braid snagged in the pinch point between the actual guide and it’s supports or wrapped around a guide causing a snap off. This is due to the limp nature of braid and the extreme memory of such heavy mono causing the tail end to stay semi coiled as it’s pulled thru the guides. If your issue is not a micro crack in one of the guides, you can try this when casting lures. Use a short mono leader with a high test braid shock leader like 200lb. The 200lb braid won’t cut your finger on a miscast like 40lb could and the braid to braid knot such as uni to uni will pass thru the guides without issue while the braid to mono knot will stay outside the guides. I would not do this for shark fishing as the heavy braid will be susceptible to getting cut by the sharks body or tail. 

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29 mins ago, Capefox said:

In cases where a 6 ft long shark rub leader and 8 oz sinker are being used, what's the best way to do this? 

Didn’t know you were shark fishing. Not my expertise. Never had any desire to catch a shark. I don’t think there is a way to cast a leader that long and heavy from the surf without experiencing problems. You may have to reconsider your strategy. If you are really serious about catching sharks from the surf you may have to invest in a small kayak to paddle the bait out and drop it where you want. I seen this on tv. In Australia they use surf boards.:kook:

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23 hours ago, Capefox said:

I was excited to try out a new Penn Carnage 12 ft 2 pc XH rod in the surf. It was paired with a Battle II 6000, 40 lb Monster-8 braided mainline, and a 15-foot 100 lb mono shock leader.  After a few decent 80-90 yard casts with a 5 oz crocodile spoon, I heard a dull crack and watched the $8 lure fly away forever; the leader to mainline double-uni had failed. Figuring the knot was snagging in the guides, I tried a slim beauty and then an Alberto, which broke-off after a handful of casts too. What is going on with the Carnage? Eyes too small to run any kind of knot involving a thick shock leader? I've heard an FG is very slim but will fail after passing through the guides. Ideas?

Why are you using 100lb shock???   I use 50lb shock for 8oz and bait.   Drop to 50lb and your knot joining to your mainline will

be much lower profile.  
 

This is the knot I use - zero issues - 

 

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