Sngl2th

Shooting Line Question

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I know this topic has been amply covered, but I have some specific questions.

 

I have switched to mostly fishing with two hander with either a 600 gr skagit or a 33-foot section of T-18. On the recommendation of the great Maine fisherman Alan Lindberg I got some SA braided polyethylene mono. This is great stuff and I strongly recommend it, especially for bottom fishing the flats.

 

I wanted to set up a second spool with a running line that sinks for fishing deep off the rocks, and I got some Gamma Frog Hair mono at Bear's Den. Only 12 bucks. The mono shoots like a rocket and works great in the basket, but even after watering and a lot of stretching it is very soft. I have very little feel and I have missed some hookups when not stripping at top speed. I don't recommend it for striper fishing.

 

Is there a mono that sinks at least somewhat and is very stiff? I need to have a good connection with my fly when it's 30 feet down, as there is already not a lot of tension.

 

Does anyone here use Lazar Line in the salt? Does it sink?

 

Are any of the cheap monos nice and stiff?

 

Here is a bonus bad pic of a 27-incher I got swinging a 7-in white/olive hollow fly on the outgoing on the Cape this weekend. Too many seals, but I still managed. We need more sharks!

IMG_2991.jpg

Edited by Sngl2th

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Rio Slick Shooter.....in the 50# size.  I use it for  still-water steelheading.....between 8 and 25 feet down.......laid up,  non-moving fish.  They just stop the very slow retrieve.  It is all in the touch and feel.  I have used nothing else for >15 years.  Once stretched, by a fish or some fishing, it lays straight and almost impossible to tangle.

 

I can't compare it to the others, which may have been improved in the ensuing years.  But back in the day I was using Amnesia and the first trial of Slick Shooter beat it all to .....

 

The SA braided polyethylene mono floats!!  NOT what you want when you are 20' down.  One of the secrets of touch and feel at depths is keeping all the angles and kinks out of the line between you and the fly......which is impossible but at least as much as possible.  Especially with slow stripping but fast stripping minimizes those angles and that problem by nature. 

Edited by Peter Patricelli

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+1 Big Game and Amnesia.

Mono doesn't quite sink quickly but it's certainly not going to prevent the head from sinking.

Mono is stretchy to a degree so it's one attribute you will have to learn to deal with. If there is a mono that doesn't stretch I'm willing to give it a try.

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On 7/15/2020 at 9:58 AM, Peter Patricelli said:

Rio Slick Shooter.....in the 50# size.  I use it for  still-water steelheading.....between 8 and 25 feet down.......laid up,  non-moving fish.  They just stop the very slow retrieve.  It is all in the touch and feel.  I have used nothing else for >15 years.  Once stretched, by a fish or some fishing, it lays straight and almost impossible to tangle.

 

I can't compare it to the others, which may have been improved in the ensuing years.  But back in the day I was using Amnesia and the first trial of Slick Shooter beat it all to .....

 

The SA braided polyethylene mono floats!!  NOT what you want when you are 20' down.  One of the secrets of touch and feel at depths is keeping all the angles and kinks out of the line between you and the fly......which is impossible but at least as much as possible.  Especially with slow stripping but fast stripping minimizes those angles and that problem by nature. 

 

I just wanted to say that you bring up an extremely good point about angles. If you have 100 feet of floating running line out and then a 30-foot head of T-18 dangling down in deep water, you simply don't have any feel when a fish hits. The same is true to a lesser extent when you have a clouser at the end of a 9-ft leader and you are mending through a pool. I should start a thread on this, as people seem to think that angle doesn't matter. When the fish hits the water is going to be the only resistance when you set the hook. I will have to try rio slick shooter.

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5 hours ago, Ftyer said:

Alan is a very good man. 

Alan is a living legend indeed. He may have been the first to use crab patterns on stripers, and a quick look at the stomach contents thread confirms the wisdom, He has a number of two-handed flats disciples up in Maine, including myself (although I have moved to Mass). 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Sn

 

FWIW I have sight fished the flats with a TH. Jury is out for me but it did mean one session I managed to get a decent Striper at a range outside of the scope with a single hander on crab. It was one of four fish in a pod that I could just see swimming at mid water.  Plonked the crab somewhere ahead of the pod and one fish grabbed it. It had been a day where endless numbers of fish had approached in a snakes column but none would take.

Used the TH to great effect in Maine casting crab pot flies on the flats but that was blind  crab fishing.

You probably know the place where an eccentric guy fires a cannon when you walk in front of his beach house. We fished grocery flies there and preferred floating running line because of the water shallowing up close the the rock/ bluff edges.

 

With you on the angle issue. Ideally I want the running line to sink at same rate as the head of the fly line. 
Preference is an integrated fly line. Impossible to buy weights over 500 grains for TH’s.

I can’t hang onto thick fly line running line at times and shooting mono will be    a nightmare.

SA used to make a type  4 sinking integrated Line it was a short life line. If you could get your hands on one second hand that might work. Shame we can’t buy 30 or 32 thou thick fly line type running line in fast sink. Or maybe we can and I missed it.

With a TH and casting 550grains and up 32 thou thick running line won’t stop us casting 120 feet and more. From shore not too many places where I need a depth charge line all the way through. The Airflow Beach lines I have in fast sink have an intermediate type running line and to be fair in moving water up to around 15 feet this works well enough if not quite ideal.

 

mike

 

 

Edited by Mike Oliver

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10 hours ago, Sngl2th said:

Alan is a living legend indeed. He may have been the first to use crab patterns on stripers, and a quick look at the stomach contents thread confirms the wisdom, He has a number of two-handed flats disciples up in Maine, including myself (although I have moved to Mass). 

Hmm, I’m taking a shot here, but earlier in the year I fished with him and one of his disciples, who, I believe does live in Massachusetts, on a Maine beach with four islands, might this have been you? 

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3 mins ago, Ftyer said:

Hmm, I’m taking a shot here, but earlier in the year I fished with him and one of his disciples, who, I believe does live in Massachusetts, on a Maine beach with four islands, might this have been you? 

If your name begins with an L, that was me. I went back out front that day and and caught some good fish in that heavy south wind. Crazy weather day.

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7 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

Preference is an integrated fly line. Impossible to buy weights over 500 grains for TH’s.

I can’t hang onto thick fly line running line at times and shooting mono will be    a nightmare.

SA used to make a type  4 sinking integrated Line it was a short life line. If you could get your hands on one second hand that might work. Shame we can’t buy 30 or 32 thou thick fly line type running line in fast sink. Or maybe we can and I missed it.

With a TH and casting 550grains and up 32 thou thick running line won’t stop us casting 120 feet and more.

Yes I have been using and intermediate running line cut from an old sink tip 450 gr line. No prob casting the whole assembly into the backing, but I do tend to get jammed with 'wind knots' with pvc coated line. It is a shame about the lack of options for heavy lines. I would like to see a 600-plus grain Teeny line that sinks like a stone. I tend to use 10-wt for all applications. Even if wind is not a factor (almost never) I want to blast out line, and I want to horse the fish in as fast as reasonable and get my fly back in the water.

 

There is probably no question that a one hand rod is better for sight-fishing on the flats. I recently was in a situation where I could see nice fish almost at my feet and it wasn't ideal waving my 14-ft two-hander around and plunking half of a skagit head in front of them.

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9 mins ago, Sngl2th said:

If your name begins with an L, that was me. I went back out front that day and and caught some good fish in that heavy south wind. Crazy weather day.

Haha, yep, that was me—small world. That area that you’re referencing fished well for weeks after that day for sure. The weather was indeed crazy that day but an enjoyable tide nonetheless. Feel free to let me know if you’re back up here and want some company on those crazy rocks. 

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Sn

 

I am intregued as to what type of ground or conditions that you need such an aggressive sinking line for.

 

Agree about Skagit lines and skinny water fishing not ideal.

 

The only way currently to get heavier  fly lines for overhead casting with a TH is to make them ourselves by chopping up fly lines and splicing them.

 

mike

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I have experimented with various ‘non-fly’ monofilament lines as running lines.  The least stretchy that I’ve found is “Whisker Seeker” brand, made for catfish.  It is excellent for low stretch and better than average for memory.  It is a co-polymer, not a regular nylon mono, feels and acts a bit different.  Way less stretch than Big Game and Rio.  Wet and stretch before first use and it’ll behave well all season, even after drying out.  Its weak spot is knot strength.  However, an 80% knot on 40 or 50 lb test running line is still stronger than typical fly leaders.  I experimented with loop knots and found the perfection stronger than either the surgeons or non-slip loop in this particular brand.  

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