Kylongrod

Bad caster here help please!!

Rate this topic

12 posts in this topic

Ok guys I suck at this.I’ve been fly fishing for 2 1/2 yr and have caught lots of trout and can cast a 5 wt just fine.I just built a tfo mangrove 9 wt 9’ and I paired it w a rio outbound short wf9i/s6 (6-7 ips) sink tip for fishing big freshwater stripers and I’m having an awful time casting.My streamer wants to hit my rod or almost sticks in my head.This is not fun and I’m determined to master it.The biggest question I have is at what point of “the clock”should I stop my rod on forward and back cast.I figure it’s different for heavy stuff like this than my 5 wt.Im NOT bending my wrist,and  I sometimes add a small haul to speed up the line but it don’t help much.It just streaks even faster past my scared ear.I think I’m just not doing my stop on my casting stroke right.Ok thanks for reading this long long post but any help would be lovely.Thanks guys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our back cast for sure creates most of the problems. 

No need for line speed on sink tips lines, wide loops that carry mass momentum works best, correct the loop size by focusing more on the loop & 180 principal, open the loop size, master the oval cast or Belgium cast works to kick the frustration out by staring with short cast and loop line control.

Also grab a smart phone and in slow mo video tape your self from different view angles, (tracking view would be great) a cool drill it’s, try few of your best casting strokes but at one time you just drop the head of the line fully extended behind without looking as natural as you possible can, don’t move  your natural resting position, now drop the rod and look how straight the alignment is from the fly to the rod butt.

Lack of sense over the 180 principal it’s the most common mistake in fly casting at any level, it’s like a ghost that shows up once in a while and at any time, we don’t see it because it’s behind in our blind spot, his only job it’s to give us a false perception of the actual casting sensations, hurting exactly where the foundation of any good cast should start, the back cast, it makes as believe we are doing good. 

Hope it makes sense, good luck.

best 

Viete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok thanks!One thing I’m slightly confused about is what is the 180 degree principle U where talking about?Is that the line alignment thing u where talking about?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Kylongrod said:

Ok thanks!One thing I’m slightly confused about is what is the 180 degree principle U where talking about?Is that the line alignment thing u where talking about?

Right ....Sorry about the confusion :)

In theory we must connect two casting targets with the rod tip or fly, one it’s the fish (forward cast) and the other target it’s directly 180 degrees in the opposite direction ( back cast) where it should be another mirror fish target.

Picture “Tracking” the rod tip path from a bird view from point A to point B, the closer to the 180 the better, the 180 It’s one of the fly casting principles, it’s not strictly mandatory to know them all, but it helps to understand what we are doing wrong, best way to connect the dots in real time playing and figure why something it’s not working with our fly casting.

Everyone that tried to make the system work efficiently must follow those Principals of fly casting regardless it’s a single or two handed fly rod, roll casting, Spey or over head casting they all are rule by them and always present in this sport.

Best 

Viete

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok gotcha:) thanks for the explanation.I did as u said with laying my line behind me and it was angled to my right side(I’m right handed)is that my problem?Its now to the place I’m almost scared of my fly lol but can u do a normal overhead cast with such a heavy sink tip?I can Belgian cast just fine but it bothers me I can’t overhead cast properly.I think it’s harder to haul correctly with a Belgian cast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is way too hard to sort out without seeing you cast, but please make sure the wind is blowing the line away from you. That is, your rod is on the downwind side of you.

 

Cheers,

Graeme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your back cast is off to your right your forward cast loop is going to be tilted sideways.  That is why you are hitting yourself in the head with your fly.  So, your problem is you're not following the 180 rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do your self a huge favour. Take a few lessons. We have all been  where you are now.

 

No one picks up a golf club and tennis racket and starts hitting  good shots From the off. No different to the fly rod.

 

There are a few ways to avoid fly collisions with yourself and your rod but it comes down as always to knowing and being able to cast reasonably well.

 

Very difficult to do this on a forum.

 

Mikey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey I understand and really appreciate all u guys advice.I can’t find any casting  instructors near me cause fly fishin ain’t that popular around here.For some reason when I put a heavy streamer on I can cast pretty good and don’t even come close to hittin my rod or self.I can’t explain it but I’ve been trying to apply the 180 degree rule and my casting has improved.Maybe I was using to small a practice fly???lol idk.Now just to get a striper to inhale it:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope. Bigger flies are harder to cast. It is the cast itself that’s the problem.

 

If wind is on same side as your casting arm then safest way is to cast back handed.

 

Belgian casts work ok in fresh water and short range. But in strong side winds they don’t cut it for me especially if range is needed.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

13 hours ago, Kylongrod said:

Ok gotcha:) thanks for the explanation.I did as u said with laying my line behind me and it was angled to my right side(I’m right handed)is that my problem?Its now to the place I’m almost scared of my fly lol but can u do a normal overhead cast with such a heavy sink tip?I can Belgian cast just fine but it bothers me I can’t overhead cast properly.I think it’s harder to haul correctly with a Belgian cast

Agree with the previous post.

 

Ok great, you didn’t mention the leader length?
Leaders should be short. I prefer a three to four foot piece of twenty-pound flouro tie to a yarn piece to practice. 

 

Going back to that angle the line forms at the back drop, one time try, it could be the wind making your line and leader drift before the drop, how about the leader and fly..., is it full extended?

 

Anyhow, you got the first clue, now follow the safety wind casting precautions, I would start with short cast and minimize false casting by doing 10 series of same oval cast casting drills close to your maximum skill level and see if the same angle pattern repeats. 

If the pattern it’s consistent, there is no longer a clue, it’s a fact that we must try to compensate or correct your forward cast based on what’s happening in your back cast, now work to mirror the same angle in the forward cast by only casting about 80% of the length of the head. Pick a target in both ends, look your back cast, smoothly keep casting the same line length until you control and correct the back cast drop where you wanted, exactly 180 opposite of the casting target, increase line length and repeated. 

 

About the Belgian/oval cast, perhaps the short head with the sink tip it’s giving you hard times for other reasons, like fatigue, maybe a old injury over the casting arm or shoulder that affect the strength over tendons or muscles?

 

How about if you first try the oval cast with a more familiar lighter blank and line (floating) you already own, like that trout setup you have.


Once you feel in control of the oval cast with the floating fly line, focus on the blank loading and start varying the loop size at will, switch to the actual setup it’s giving you the issues, just baby steps, do same thing here, and specially focus on the Casting arc + loop size control over that sink tip, start with about 30% of the head inside the rod tip, look for wide loops first and in 
one foot line increments every other cast, once you reach the casting line length and loop size control limit, stop and see how much line out of the rod tip can you effortlessly control after a oval cast was done.


Do the same with the light weight blank and put both rods side by side and see for yourself the results. 

 


Here it’s a interesting short clip practice drill from the times of Lee Wulff  that helps to test our arm strength, line control and eyes hands coordination to only mention few, I would try to do the same, but off the casting shoulder with 50% of the short head sink fly line inside the rod tip before stepping in to the oval cast.
Take your casting safety precautions and don’t let the frustration take over, today’s smart phones will help us to spot our mistakes in real time in just few minutes and always follow the casting principles. 

 

Here it’s the actual clip.


Paul Arden is a master casting instructor, he will analyze and take a closer look of any fly casting footage you want to share with him, either vía YTube account or his email in his web site, all free of charge. 
Keep us posted please.
Hope it helps
Best 
Viete

Edited by Vieteiro
Ups wrong first tip clip link...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.