gooner

shooting taper lines vs true to weight WF lines for blind casting the surf

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I know this is a unending subject and most of the people have choosen sides but its always intresting to hear other opinions. Personally i opt for the shooting taper and its NOT the distance factor(me neither have yet decide which of the 2 casts further) but for the reasons i will analyze. 1)Less false casting means the fly is more time on the water so more fishing time 2) better turnover of the heavier flies 3) you need less room for the backcast and in many situations  that makes the difference between a spot available for fly rod or not. From the other side true to weight lines have better presentation but i dont think it matters most of the time out on the surf. i am intrested to see cases from both sides...

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Gooner

 

There are two schools and pretty polarised.  I am from the other camp. I like long head lines like Airflows Striper cold Water line.  This line an be sent out with minimal false casts just like the 30 foot short heads. Skill and technique will allow this. They will cast further and can be better into a head wind due to the longer head. They do need a bit more room behind but that does not happen that often. Short heads better for delivering heavy flies. I have tried them but just can’t get to love them.

 

mike

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30' is about my upper limit for a line with an integrated head.

I favor the Wulff Bermuda Triangle Short floater.  They have heads of 24-26' in the upper grain weights.  They start at 22' for the lower grain weights.

And - forget double tapers - ugh.

I don't now how Mike O. can cast those.

Herb

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I really like shooting heads for several reasons. Distance is one but the shooting head is not automatically better in that regard. 
 

A line will stop moving forward once it’s done unrolling. So a Line with a 40’ head has more distance potential than a 30’ shooting head. But, and there’s always a but...  line diameter plays a role. My goto when fishing for Albies from a jetty was a shooting head system with a type 6 head. Then thin head, coupled with a thin running cuts the wind far better than any line or other head. I could bang out longer casts with less effort. I tried both sides by side many times and the distance was similar but the head had less effort, always. 
 

I also commonly used heads that were longer than 30’. I had heads up to 45’. You could get some serious distance with those. 

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44 mins ago, HL said:

30' is about my upper limit for a line with an integrated head.

I favor the Wulff Bermuda Triangle Short floater.  They have heads of 24-26' in the upper grain weights.  They start at 22' for the lower grain weights.

And - forget double tapers - ugh.

I don't now how Mike O. can cast those.

Herb

Heh

 

Herb never cast a DT in salt water but used to in fresh water in rivers and liked them.

 

Everyone has their preference mine just happens to be a longer head fully integrated fly line. I don’t like thin running lines to as hard to grip with cold wet soggy hands.

 

I just hope that short heads lines will not squeeze out long head lines as they increase in popularity.

 

mike

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Posted (edited) · Report post

"A line will stop moving forward once it’s done unrolling"

 

This is news to me, and I have been using both shooting heads and short head lines........for 60+ years.  A discussion of the physics is beyond my intention here in this post but I don't believe that is intrinsically true.

 

The OP mentions a "shooting taper vrs true to (?) weight forward lines", and that leaves me scratching my head.  To me, ANY weight forward line is a "shooting line"......versus a DT line NOT designed for a shoot.  The first WF lines were all 30' heads.....way back in the day when they were revolutionary and controversial.  After all, the "working portion of the weight designation was for the first 30' of the (DT) line.

 

Everyone (else) seems to have interpreted his intention as comparing a shooting HEAD (not taper) OR a "short head" integrated line (to me.....30' heads are "normal" and the longer newcomers are "long head" lines) versus longer head lines.  But then....one poster here refers to using 45' shooting heads......so the top to bottom confusion deepens.   No one wants to compare short head integrated lines versus "long" shooting heads....so I suppose there is a glimmer of hope. 

 

Soooo.....in terms of  opinion, I don't fish the surf.....so don't have an opinion.  But.......I don't own a line (or head) with longer than a 30' head.  And I find it unimaginable that I can't find either a full line or head-shooting line combo that wouldn't work as well as any longer head line (or head?).  That is, of course, with a 9' SH rod......which dictates differences in how much line must be retrieved in commencing the re-cast process.  A longer or TH rod can re-aerialize more line on initiation

 

But I do love seeing MO in the minority........for once.

Edited by Peter Patricelli

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Try them both and form your own opinion-what’s good for one might not be good for you.

on the water experience is the best.

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My favorite advantage of shooting heads is portability....can carry one rod one reel and have sinker, floater, intermediate etc heads ready to go.  So if you fish mostly on foot this might be helpful, from a boat with rod storage probably not so much.

 

Since you can make your own heads long or short is up to you my favorite popper head started life as a 12wt DT floater. 

 

 

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Short head/long head it's all relative to what your fishing for, the water you're fishing and the weather conditions. I favor longer heads for my 6 or 8wt for a more delicate presentation...they're fished on quiet water day or night so the quieter presentation is beneficial. My 10 or 14wt fish big water and big wind so they favor shorter, heavier heads to quickly deliver bigger flies to the strike zone with a minimum of false casting...safety reasons come into play here as well in strong crosswinds. If necessary I could take my 10wt  and cast 60ft of 7wt line or 30 ft of 14wt line...whatever best matches the weather and the conditions. I consider 30-37ft short lines, and 40-50ft full length lines. They all have they're place, just gotta learn to adjust your stroke...they all cast well.

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8 hours ago, Drew C. said:

A line will stop moving forward once it’s done unrolling.

Absolutely not. Very clear with very fast sinking heads for example. If the unrolling stops, it usually means that the leader will land in a pile or point almost fully backwards.

Not the best example, but you can see the loop collapsing, but the line continues forward:

 

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10 hours ago, Beomurf said:

My favorite advantage of shooting heads is portability....can carry one rod one reel and have sinker, floater, intermediate etc heads ready to go.  So if you fish mostly on foot this might be helpful, from a boat with rod storage probably not so much.

 

Since you can make your own heads long or short is up to you my favorite popper head started life as a 12wt DT floater. 

 

 

This is the major point for me. When I fish IBSP I could 4 types of water at any time - back bay, inlet with current, jetty (deep with little current) and open surf. Carrying several heads ranging from int to type 6, i could cover any situation or conditions. 

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The loop is gone at about 1:37. It reoccurs couple of times thou afterwards. As said, not the best example. With short fast shooting heards (ie SA DWE 700gr or 850gr head), they can roll through so that there is no line to roll into the loop and they still continue quite far if cast high with large velocity. Those lines are black so I guess would be hard to video.

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11 mins ago, sms said:

The loop is gone at about 1:37. It reoccurs couple of times thou afterwards. As said, not the best example. With short fast shooting heards (ie SA DWE 700gr or 850gr head), they can roll through so that there is no line to roll into the loop and they still continue quite far if cast high with large velocity. Those lines are black so I guess would be hard to video.

1:37? The loop opens right at the tail end of the vid. It gets lost in the trees but it is still there well past 2:00. That vid shows exactly what I am talking about, thanks for posting it. 

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