PSegnatelli

Laid out w/ a wrenched back and looking at Google maps

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Fell down some stairs carrying stuff up from the basement. Tweaked my back a little but it wasn't too bad.  Then I was in the pool with my kids.  1st I did a EPIC belly flop off the ladder (pop!!) Then my foot got stuck in the handle of a inflatable gator (ping!!) And then I slipped on a wet spot in the bathroom (pow!!) And here I am. Day 4 of the "No, dear I'm fine" club. With a side of "dad, we should record you and see if we can get on Ridiculousness..."

 

So in my infinite boredom I'm scouring Google Satellite maps looking for places to fish.  And questions pop up.  

 

What crosses the line and is considered trespassing? 

 

High water line safe for travel? Can one walk the shore from beach to beach?  

 

If there is no signage. Is it ok to enter?   

 

Any rules on wagons?  I used to be a mule but can't do that any more. If I can't carry it, I roll it. But if I gotta stay in water that wouldn't be all that fun. 

 

I have no boat or access to one. All on foot. 

 

 

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You have to be able access said piece of shoreline legally. By using a ROW or permission from a homeowner/property manager. Once there just remain below mean high tide. 

Be ready for the police to be called on you, or security. A lot of police don't know the about the high tide line or refuse to acknowledge it and will kick you off of the beach. Some you can reason with some you can't. The more affluent the community the less cooperation you're going to receive from police. That's my experience anyway. 

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CT is a tough place for public access,especially in Western CT.  East has some good public access,but I don't know if Covid has changed those rules. You will get hassled if you go into areas that are private for sure.

You're not missing anything at this point for Bass fishing.  If it stays like this there will be a lot of gear up for sale.  Get well and don't push it.

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I've always kept a laminated copy of the law speaking about anything below the high tide line belonging to the people in my wallet, 

People complain

Call the cops

Cops show up

Show them the thing

They usually don't believe you 

Call a CO 

If they show up they'll usually say you're in the right as long as you accessed it legally 

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17 hours ago, GrahamN said:

I've always kept a laminated copy of the law speaking about anything below the high tide line belonging to the people in my wallet, 

People complain

Call the cops

Cops show up

Show them the thing

They usually don't believe you 

Call a CO 

If they show up they'll usually say you're in the right as long as you accessed it legally 

Won't work in some areas where the landowners actually own the underwater property, and there are lots of places like that in CT.

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There's a website named US Harbors, go to their map view, and full-screen it. They have G Earth and depth charts superimposed, you can see the G Earth photo and the contour depth lines at the same time. Sometimes, this will tell you the story of whether you can walk from here to there, or not, at different tide heights. Or, if something looks great on G Earth, you might learn you'd be throwing into 1' of water, and not worth going there.  Every July into August, when New Haven area water gets too hot, I start looking for places farther north east I can fish.It helps, but is certainly not perfect. I also check the site (US Harbors) whenever I go on a trip near the shore. More often than not, some obstacle exists in real life that I did not see on the pictures. But,every now and then it pays off.

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19 hours ago, MakoMike said:

Won't work in some areas where the landowners actually own the underwater property, and there are lots of places like that in CT.

In a navigable body of water, maintained by the federal government, such as Coast Guard maintained buoys, etc, anything below the high water mark is public property. The land under the water thing is mostly inland freshwater, where riparian water rights were deeded to land owners centuries ago.

 

"...private property ends, and public trust property begins, at the mean high water line (often referred to as "high water mark" in court decisions).   Mean high water is the average of high tides over a defined period, and its elevation can be obtained from standard references, including the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Tidal Flood Profile charts. 

The public owns up to "high water mark," Simons v. French, 25 Conn. 346 (1856).

Title of riparian proprietor terminates at ordinary high water mark, Mather v. Chapman, 40 Conn. 382 (1873).

"High water mark" = "mean high water mark" = "ordinary high water mark."  Private ownership of submerged lands is possible, only when basins are dredged from upland, or from inland, non-navigable waters.  Michalczo v. Woodmont, 175 Conn. 535 (1978)."

 

if you really want to go nuts reading about this, look into

Putting the Public Trust Doctrine to Work 

https://shoreline.noaa.gov/docs/8d5885.pdf

 

This is a lovely summer read of about 450 pages or so, no pictures, and likely to make your head explode. For the most part all court cases are there.

One good case in point. The Town of Westport was sued because they had claimed control of the clamming near Cockenoe Island. After many years of litigation, and tens of thousands of dollars, the courts sided with the State.

This is really an over simplification of how it went down.

The bigger issue is, getting access to the mean high water mark as most here, in western CT is bordered by private property.

 

 

 

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On 7/2/2020 at 5:56 AM, PSegnatelli said:

Fell down some stairs carrying stuff up from the basement. Tweaked my back a little but it wasn't too bad.  Then I was in the pool with my kids.  1st I did a EPIC belly flop off the ladder (pop!!) Then my foot got stuck in the handle of a inflatable gator (ping!!) And then I slipped on a wet spot in the bathroom (pow!!) And here I am. Day 4 of the "No, dear I'm fine" club. With a side of "dad, we should record you and see if we can get on Ridiculousness..."

 

So in my infinite boredom I'm scouring Google Satellite maps looking for places to fish.  And questions pop up.  

 

What crosses the line and is considered trespassing? 

 

High water line safe for travel? Can one walk the shore from beach to beach?  

 

If there is no signage. Is it ok to enter?   

 

Any rules on wagons?  I used to be a mule but can't do that any more. If I can't carry it, I roll it. But if I gotta stay in water that wouldn't be all that fun. 

 

I have no boat or access to one. All on foot. 

 

 

Hope you got all that on video!

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Sadly I did not.   How I haven't been on YouTube or AFV is a mystery.  I shoulda been born with a helmet at times. 

 

Btw. Thanks for that info.  

I don't go looking for trouble, I will follow the law to a T but will go not a inch further.  

 

Edited by PSegnatelli

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2 hours ago, The TideRunner said:

In a navigable body of water, maintained by the federal government, such as Coast Guard maintained buoys, etc, anything below the high water mark is public property. The land under the water thing is mostly inland freshwater, where riparian water rights were deeded to land owners centuries ago.

 

"...private property ends, and public trust property begins, at the mean high water line (often referred to as "high water mark" in court decisions).   Mean high water is the average of high tides over a defined period, and its elevation can be obtained from standard references, including the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Tidal Flood Profile charts. 

The public owns up to "high water mark," Simons v. French, 25 Conn. 346 (1856).

Title of riparian proprietor terminates at ordinary high water mark, Mather v. Chapman, 40 Conn. 382 (1873).

"High water mark" = "mean high water mark" = "ordinary high water mark."  Private ownership of submerged lands is possible, only when basins are dredged from upland, or from inland, non-navigable waters.  Michalczo v. Woodmont, 175 Conn. 535 (1978)."

 

if you really want to go nuts reading about this, look into

Putting the Public Trust Doctrine to Work 

https://shoreline.noaa.gov/docs/8d5885.pdf

 

This is a lovely summer read of about 450 pages or so, no pictures, and likely to make your head explode. For the most part all court cases are there.

One good case in point. The Town of Westport was sued because they had claimed control of the clamming near Cockenoe Island. After many years of litigation, and tens of thousands of dollars, the courts sided with the State.

This is really an over simplification of how it went down.

The bigger issue is, getting access to the mean high water mark as most here, in western CT is bordered by private property.

 

 

 

Yes, but :shaky: when a shoreline property owner gets a permit and constructs any type of structure in the water, such as a dock, it is private property even though it is below the high water mark. Then in the western sound almost all of the beaches are owned by the towns and they prohibit non-residents from using them. Then add in the fact that most of the remaining waterfront if fenced off extremely rocky ( like really dangerous to climb on) and you really don’t have much waterfront left. Then add in the parking problems and you’ll wish you owned a boat! 

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Agreed. That’s the last sentence of my statement. It’s getting access from land to that high water mark. Good case in point is Stratford’ Russian beach. There is a mapped public right of way, but no way to get to it. 
The sea wall is all rock so ya can’t get there from there And the rest of Russian beach is private property. 
This year access is a moot point as only city residents can use local beaches in most towns. Other years one can buy non resident beach passes. Pricey, but not much other choice. 

When a land owner constructs a dock the dock becomes private property. The landowner still has no claim to the water.

In essence, it’s the same as a driveway that goes to a city street. I don’t have access to the driveway but I can walk and drive in the street. A marina is a different story and would depend on the location. Milford Harbor is lined with marinas and some private docks but access to the harbor can’t be restricted. 
Some marinas are built in dredged areas, those dredged areas are considered private property but cannot restrict public access to the main body of water that the marina is dredged from

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I haven't really thought about obstacles. 

 

And this year has been quite problematic on parking.  Especially if you live inland. 

 

 

I'd love to get a car toppable boat. 

My problem is.

Small car

Family of 4. And we are almost always together. 

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