BrokeOff

Clousers Accurately at Distance

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47 posts in this topic

2 mins ago, Drew C. said:

That’s what I would use but make it 3’ of leader and 24-36’ of tippet if you’re worried. 
 

also, a clouser probably wouldn’t be my first choice of stealth was needed. 

 

I'm going to experiment with leaders.

 

We had a 15 kt breeze on the line shoulder that day (guide called it 20).  So I don't think stealth in that exact distance scenario was required.  But we started the day fishing skinny, 5 kt wind, close enough to see the stripes. 

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6 mins ago, 02807Fish said:

I agree with Mike.  If you must use a long leader, try the constant tension cast.  Ironically, Bob himself published a good SBS explanation of the cast in I believe American Angler a few years ago.  He calls it the inverted loop cast.  Just remember, do not stop on the back cast.  Just maintain constant tension.  You may break fewer off and will be surprised at the power in the loop despite the fact that the two legs are wider.  And/or try the more aerodynamic Jiggy fly.

 

I think for me a less aerodynamic fly would help.

 

Additionally, jiggy fly is a trigger word for me now.  Put in a $300 custom order for 20 jiggies and 12 hollows and they never arrived.  Things could be worse though.

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23 mins ago, BrokeOff said:

 

Yes, I do well with an oval cast but at distance it gets tough.

There will be a compromise. If you have a friendly side wind or tail wind  60 to 80 feet is on the cards. But not with a big heavy Clouser. The 5/32 eyes  ones yes.

Could be you just need a tune up of your casting. An hour with a good Instructor should  fix this.
 

Mike

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15 mins ago, Drew C. said:

That’s what I would use but make it 3’ of leader and 24-36’ of tippet if you’re worried. 
 

also, a clouser probably wouldn’t be my first choice of stealth was needed. 

Absolutely agree on this.

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Just now, Mike Oliver said:

There will be a compromise. If you have a friendly side wind or tail wind  60 to 80 feet is on the cards. But not with a big heavy Clouser. The 5/32 eyes  ones yes.

Could be you just need a tune up of your casting. An hour with a good Instructor should  fix this.
 

Mike

 

It could be, but last night I hit my PB distance cast.  No fly, no wind, field, 12' leader, 9 wt rod, 10 wt striper ridge, line and leader straight as an arrow, 102'.  Its up from 96 ft that I have not been able to get past for 3 months.  Without the clousers I think I have a very good fishing cast to 70'+.  Things really change for me once the clouser is added.

 

I'm not a good caster or fisherman, but I have had maybe a half dozen in person lessons.  Also working with someone via video halfway around the world.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

BrokeOff the no wind no fly is kinda not realistic. But is indicative that you can cast. Bet my last quid that the problem lies with long leader and a Clouser with very heavy eyes and a cast that utalises a std hard stop.
Dare I say I have seen much casting with such flies and it was not pretty and not long either. But the guys chucking them were not bothered. They were probably fishing them like jigs and using the heavy eyes to also get depth.

 

mike

Edited by Mike Oliver

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1 hour ago, BrokeOff said:

 

I think for me a less aerodynamic fly would help.

 

Additionally, jiggy fly is a trigger word for me now.  Put in a $300 custom order for 20 jiggies and 12 hollows and they never arrived.  Things could be worse though.

Pm me your address. If I have any jiggys I will send you some. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

2 hours ago, BrokeOff said:

 

I'm going to experiment with leaders.

 

We had a 15 kt breeze on the line shoulder that day (guide called it 20).  So I don't think stealth in that exact distance scenario was required.  But we started the day fishing skinny, 5 kt wind, close enough to see the stripes. 

So, if you have a 15 knot wind I would fish a leader 6-7’ in total. If it was a bluebird day with no wind, I’d still fish the same leader. If by the rare chance I spooked fish or thought I was getting more refusals than expected I would certainly consider adjusting my leader. But i would still start with that. 
 

I think people WAY over think leaders for what we do here in the NE. My leaders have always been ~5-7’ or so (I never measured them) of 30lb Ande 9wt and down and 40 for a 10wt. Loops on both ends. Tippets, I carry 8-20lb @~24” (again, never measured them) and that was it. Same leader for surface, unweighted and weighted. You really don’t need more than that. 
 

ps - another way to say how long my leader would be - when rigged up I would have a foot or so of fly line past the tip and the fly to the hook keeper or the little spot where the reel foot contacts the upper part of the seat. If my leader extended into the rod it was generally too long. 

Edited by Drew C.

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Chiming in to agree with what most others are saying - shorter leader. And I'll add, while I hate buying new lines it sounds like the ideal line for the kind of fishing you're doing could be a flats line with a stealth tip. Rio makes one with a 6ft intermediate tip. I know that can effect picking up line when you cast and obviously that tip will be heavier than a 40 lb mono butt section BUT with that 6 foot tip, you could fish an 8 foot leader and have something similar to a 14 ft leader. BTW, I have no experience with this line, just pitching as a possible solution. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Hi Broke Off. Based on your concerns shortening the leader would be a suggestion made only after analyzing your cast and qualifying both the rod and the fly line and how they are working together.

 

It could just be a simple issue of timing or the plane on which you are casting. A low back cast with a Clowser will cause you to beat the fly up against the beach and or the water you're in if you're out fairly far from shore fishing low tides and outflows and whatnot.

 

First of all what fly line are you using? The Airflo Ridge Striper intermediate or floating? And which Fly Rod are you using?

 

Before you start tampering with your leader you should also examine the leader taper & design it to match your fly line. This will help immensely with turnover.

 

Once I understand your fly line taper I'll give you a leader formula & we can chit-chat back and forth about the cast. 

 

First inclination is that the taper is a bit funky. Switching to a three-piece leader with a 40lb, 30 lb & 20 lb formula equally exactly 7 and 1/2 ft will probably help immensely if you are using The line I think you're using. Then you can add a piece of Tippit in whatever lighter test pounded you would like, More than likely between 12 and 8 lb for this time of year.  

 

That will lengthen the leader out to about 9 ft. If you need a longer leader you can add a piece of 15 lb to bridge the gap between the 20 and the much lighter tippet. 

 

That would assist with your turnover. Casting a weighted fly requires several adjustments in the casting stroke. We can go through all four of them once we figure out the basic issues we are facing.

 

Also the basic fly patterns that you're using would be helpful because we could ascertain how much weight is in the fly. I actually prefer bead chain for most of my Clousers, it's very cheap and light. 

 

However I also do use a variety of different dumbbell eyes and some of them if they have Tungsten in them, can be quite a bit heavier. Generally when you're fishing a very heavy fly, a 9-ft Leader would be preferable.

Edited by CaryGreene

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12 mins ago, CaryGreene said:

Hi Broke Off. Based on your concerns shortening the leader would be a suggestion made only after analyzing your cast and qualifying both the rod and the fly line and how they are working together.

 

It could just be a simple issue of timing or the plane on which you are casting. A low back cast with a clownser will cause you to beat the fly up against the beach and or the water you're in if you're out fairly far from shore fishing low tides and outflows and whatnot.

 

First of all what fly line are you using? The Airflo Ridge Striper intermediate or floating? And which Fly Rod are you using?

 

Before you start tampering with your leader you should also examine the leader taper & design it to match your fly line. This will help immensely with turnover.

 

Once I understand your fly line taper I'll give you a leader formula & we can chit-chat back and forth about the cast. 

 

First inclination is that the taper is a bit funky. Switching to a three-piece leader with a 40lb, 30 lb & 20 lb formula equally exactly 7 and 1/2 ft will probably help immensely if you are using The line I think you're using. Then you can add a piece of Tippit in whatever lighter test pounded you would like, More than likely between 12 and 8 lb for this time of year.  

 

That will lengthen the leader out to about 9 ft. If you need a longer leader you can add a piece of 15 lb to bridge the gap between the 20 and the much lighter tippet. 

 

That would assist with your turnover. Casting a weighted fly requires several adjustments in the casting stroke. We can go through all four of them once we figure out the basic issues we are facing.


I’m using a 9 wt Scott Sector and either a 9 wt or 10 wt Striper Ridge intermediate.

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Like many others have said, shortening the leader would definitely help. I fish about a 10 footer in the same skinny water conditions you mentioned and it works pretty well. I think I know what you mean by “overpowering” your casts. To combat this I would leave a little more (about 3-4 ft) slack in the line when you make your final cast. Another way to think about this is to try making your final cast sooner than you think you need to. Eventually you can hone this in to prevent the fly from whipping around at the end of your cast when all the line is out. Just make sure to get plenty of practice!

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General rule - heavier fly, shorter leader. And heavier or stiffer leader. You’re not going to have a delicate presentation with a clouser in any case. I would go with a 7’ 20 lb leader, tapered or straight shot. Stripers are generally not leader shy even on the flats.

 

Splash of the clouser hitting the water, and lining the fish are bigger risks of spooking the fish than 7’ leader being too short, in my opinion.

 

its crazy that you’re taking shots at 60-80’. Hard to even see them at that distance.

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