T Dot

What primer or change to a different seal?

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Hi everyone

 

Long time reader here!  Awesome forums - I cant read enough.

 

My painter (I cant paint for the life of me) is running into priming the AYC (spar urethane/oil based) sealed baits.  He uses Createx (water based) paints and doesn't know how to properly primer these baits.  If you can point us in the right direction, we would appreciate it.  If there is another cost effective way to dip seal (non epoxy) so that it will work directly with Createx paints - I would be very open to moving towards that. 

 

Another option would be to move to a water based (spar urethane) seal.  If we do choose to go that way, what inherent issues could we run into.

 

Thank again in advance.

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The Zinnser Bins shellac based primer was a favorite for a long time, builds well, covers well, and sands and smooths well once it's  dry and hard. Used it for years, but it was a pia to clean out of the paint gun, needed DNA or ammonia to  cut

it. The epoxy sealing does a lot of things, seals the wood, hardens the wood, and once it cures (overnight) it can be scuffed and painted. So you don't have to wait 2 weeks for your sealer to dry. It also often removes the need for an extra step- priming.

So long as the plug blank was well sanded, ( no tearout), the epoxy provides a great base to paint on. I spray a coat of Createx Opaque White, and then paint the colors over it.

Finally, put the epoxy clear coat on and admire your shiny new plug

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I'm sure other guys have more modern techniques, but I've been doing the following for 15 years without issue:

Sealer: Oil based primer (Koverstain or Kilz) 70:30 primer to mineral spirits.

Primer: Rustoleum 2X Ultra Cover

Airbrush: Createx colors

Pre-Epoxy Sealer: Rustoleum 2X Clear Matte

Epoxy: Envirotex Lite

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3 hours ago, Ed White said:

The Zinnser Bins shellac based primer was a favorite for a long time, builds well, covers well, and sands and smooths well once it's  dry and hard. Used it for years, but it was a pia to clean out of the paint gun, needed DNA or ammonia to  cut

it. The epoxy sealing does a lot of things, seals the wood, hardens the wood, and once it cures (overnight) it can be scuffed and painted. So you don't have to wait 2 weeks for your sealer to dry. It also often removes the need for an extra step- priming.

So long as the plug blank was well sanded, ( no tearout), the epoxy provides a great base to paint on. I spray a coat of Createx Opaque White, and then paint the colors over it.

Finally, put the epoxy clear coat on and admire your shiny new plug


I appreciate the response and the detailed explanation.  Understanding this - epoxy may be an option if it is like that self leveling stuff I recently used.

 

The caveat is that I do not have a lure turner, so a dip and dry is optimal.

 

The issue that I seem to be running into is the excess and where/how it builds up when it’s drip drying.  Those spots seem to be thick, gummy and oil.  Those are the only problem spots (2 exactly) that I am running into.  All the flat and non-buildup spots are fine.

 

I need to figure out how to remove the excess without being so messy.

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19 hours ago, Ed White said:

The Zinnser Bins shellac based primer was a favorite for a long time, builds well, covers well, and sands and smooths well once it's  dry and hard. Used it for years, but it was a pia to clean out of the paint gun, needed DNA or ammonia to  cut

it. The epoxy sealing does a lot of things, seals the wood, hardens the wood, and once it cures (overnight) it can be scuffed and painted. So you don't have to wait 2 weeks for your sealer to dry. It also often removes the need for an extra step- priming.

So long as the plug blank was well sanded, ( no tearout), the epoxy provides a great base to paint on. I spray a coat of Createx Opaque White, and then paint the colors over it.

Finally, put the epoxy clear coat on and admire your shiny new plug

Yup exact process I do also .  Sealing with epoxy is pretty easy ,  and makes a durable plug and like said ready for paint about 24 hours or less depending on temp . 

 

19 hours ago, Sparky said:

I'm sure other guys have more modern techniques, but I've been doing the following for 15 years without issue:

Sealer: Oil based primer (Koverstain or Kilz) 70:30 primer to mineral spirits.

Primer: Rustoleum 2X Ultra Cover

Airbrush: Createx colors

Pre-Epoxy Sealer: Rustoleum 2X Clear Matte

Epoxy: Envirotex Lite

Been meaning to try the clear matte before finish epoxy . Getting sick of fish eyes when I use any pearl or metallic createx paint .. it doesn’t dull the look of the paint any ? I guess when the epoxy goes over it , it pretty clear ? 

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You would never know it's there. Seals the signature too.

Definitely has reduced my share of fish eyes. As long as the mix is right, I have nearly zero issues

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18 hours ago, T Dot said:

 

The caveat is that I do not have a lure turner, so a dip and dry is optimal.

 

5efa59a4b976f_EpoxyDryingrack1.jpg.283c4f9e3a7ae9f0cd453a17fb5ec0ad.jpg

 

Flip drying technique

 

I do two coats of epoxy, first one is before the plug is assembled (in photo), second is after the plug is assembled. Flip as I add each plug then once every 10 minutes for the first half hour and gradually down to none. usually in about 3 hours

Best with two thin coats vs one thick one

 

For drying the initial epoxy seal, I use this curing rack, and give em a twist to break the wire free after about 7 or 8 hours (painted plug in the photo just to show how they fit, that's normally just raw wood and epoxy)

I put bits of sheet metal in the lip slots so the epoxy doesn't close them up, they come out sooner, leave them too long and you have an issue

 

5efa5b1975bd0_Curingrack.jpg.9c5481a107b246f34783f686ac03f560.jpg

 

 

 

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I flip 3 times total. 50 minutes apart. Head up. Tail up. Head up.

1 heavy-ish coat.

I built a rack that holds 16 plugs. I put it in a foot locker to minimize dust finding the sticky epoxy. 

 

Many ways to skin a cat. 

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23 hours ago, Sparky said:

You would never know it's there. Seals the signature too.

Definitely has reduced my share of fish eyes. As long as the mix is right, I have nearly zero issues

Cool thanks . Guess next time I’m in homies I grab a can ..  i miss being able to put on epoxy on spinner and set and forget .. never had problems with rattle cans , it’s def the createx pearls which I like and use a lot ..  lately I been brushing out the fish eyes every hour or so .. and once the epoxy stiffens up to much to brush out , I apply second coat and they come out pretty well but it’s a pain in the ass 

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So did the rusto matte clear thing .. how long ya wait before epoxy ? I’m an impatient one . But I guess I leave in hot garage for at least a day .. hope this works . Would be so nice not to deal with fish eyes 

4E64566C-4C25-4AE5-8D64-C174A9D3E254.jpeg

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You can do it it the same day. It dries super quick.

I give em a light coat after I'm done wiring. Sign it and let the ink dry for a couple hours.

Spray the sig with a very light coat and let it dry for a few minutes before recoating. Even archival ink will smear if you spray too much on it. 

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6 mins ago, Sparky said:

You can do it it the same day. It dries super quick.

I give em a light coat after I'm done wiring. Sign it and let the ink dry for a couple hours.

Spray the sig with a very light coat and let it dry for a few minutes before recoating. Even archival ink will smear if you spray too much on it. 

I owe ya beer . Sprayed them last night . Let sit till after work today . Put first coat of etex on 2 hours ago or so and so far looking smooth as glass ... man what a game changer .. thanks so much for the tip .. feel like I just woke up .. good stuff 

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Pretty much anything I was gonna add was already said by guys who build a lot of plugs. I will say this: I find that, when sealing bare wood plugs with epoxy, I have to flip less often, and can go longer times between flipping, than when I am applying epoxy top coat to painted plugs. The bare wood absorbs most epoxy that would run/drip. Because I build 'fully sealed' or plugs that already are wired when I seal, I flip more often than some would, because any epoxy on the wire will run down the wire. My flip schedule is very much like what sudsy said, but more frequent than what Wire for Hire said.

T Dot needs to change his sealant or him primer, one or the other. Is there a primer that can be shot thru an air brush that will stick to oil spar (and won't clog the gun without intense cleaning?) How does spray can BIN or Killz work on oil poly u? I haven't sealed with poly u in a few years, I just prefer epoxy seal.

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