Patrick Cambria Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) I'm installing some outlets outside under my elevated deck. I have a post here somewhere from when I installed a sub panel and outlets in my above ground basement. I will be feeding off that with yellow romex to where it will go through the wall via 1/2 PVC conduit. From there it will switch over to all THHN (wet rated). Were the feed will come through the wall is just under the elevated deck. Its up high. I want to install a switched outlet there and below it will be a 2 gang box (switch for above and non switched outlet). My question is should I run 3 wires down and 3 back up or should I pig tail the ground and neutral in the upper box and only run the hot back up to the switched outlet? This way it will be 4 wires and not 6? I'm not sure if that makes sense. Edited May 23, 2020 by Patrick Cambria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltfisherman Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Thhn is not wet rated but that’s one problem. Thwn is. Thwn is good for underground conduit use where water can be present. Elec conduit is not watertight., this includes PVC. Secondly that wire can not be free aired and must be in a conduit. The rest of it I’m not touching. My best recommendation to you is hire someone, licensed to do the job or at least someone familiar with the wiring from being in the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snag777 Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 i would go to swich,from switch to outlet and from outlet to second outlet,bouth otlets controled with one swich,3 wires should do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Cambria Posted May 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 4 mins ago, saltfisherman said: Thhn is not wet rated but that’s one problem. Thwn is. Thwn is good for underground conduit use where water can be present. Elec conduit is not watertight., this includes PVC. Secondly that wire can not be free aired and must be in a conduit. The rest of it I’m not touching. My best recommendation to you is hire someone, licensed to do the job or at least someone familiar with the wiring from being in the trade. It's dual rated wire and obviously going in conduit. But thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Cambria Posted May 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 2 mins ago, Patrick Cambria said: It's dual rated wire and obviously going in conduit. But thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Cambria Posted May 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) 8 mins ago, snag777 said: i would go to swich,from switch to outlet and from outlet to second outlet,bouth otlets controled with one swich,3 wires should do that. 1. The lower outlet isn't going to be switched. 2. The switched outlet is located by the feed so I have to pass it and come back with at least the hot. 3. I don't want 2 second outlet to load the first outlet. I purposely bought 2 gfci outlets to avoid this. Edit: for clarity im using PVC so I'm running a ground wire. I'm not sure if you were counting that when you said 3. Edited May 23, 2020 by Patrick Cambria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snag777 Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 min ago, Patrick Cambria said: 1. The lower outlet isn't going to be switched. 2. The switched outlet is located by the feed so I have to pass it and come back with at least the hot. 3. I don't want 2 second outlet to load the first outlet. I purposely bought 2 gfci outlets to avoid this. go to weather proof box and from box feed each outlet with sepert wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave588 Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 You could run three conductors and a ground like you would with a two way switch. So one hot is switched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave588 Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) My house has lower outlet wired hot and upper outlet switched on every duplex outlet but that's not gfci. Edited May 23, 2020 by Dave588 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdsnester Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) 49 mins ago, Patrick Cambria said: I'm installing some outlets outside under my elevated deck. I have a post here somewhere from when I installed a sub panel and outlets in my above ground basement. I will be feeding off that with yellow romex to where it will go through the wall via 1/2 PVC conduit. From there it will switch over to all THHN (wet rated). Were the feed will come through the wall is just under the elevated deck. Its up high. I want to install a switched outlet there and below it will be a 2 gang box (switch for above and non switched outlet). My question is should I run 3 wires down and 3 back up or should I pig tail the ground and neutral in the upper box and only run the hot back up to the switched outlet? This way it will be 4 wires and not 6? I'm not sure if that makes sense. Hi, I am an electrical inspector for NYC. I am assuming you don't need a license to work on your house, and in lot's of areas you don't. Ok so, first you cannot exit the house legally with romex. You should run UF cable through the wall into the switched receptacle box. So, that is two conductors and a ground. From there to the two gang box you need a ground wire (green), an ungrounded wire (hot, usually black), a Neutral (white) and a switchleg (usually red). So, from the single gang box to the two gang box you will need a Green, Black, Red, and white wire. The black wire will feed the one side of the switch and the unswitched receptacle, the red wire will come off the other terminal of the switch to feed your switched receptacle, the white wire will be the neutral wire for both receptacles. If your boxes are exposed to water like rain you will need in use covers which allows a cord to be plugged in at all times with the cover closed. If they are under an overhang and are not subject to water you can use standard outdoor covers. If I were you I would use all PVC boxes and conduit to eliminate the need for grounding metal boxes. Just one less Very Important thing you will not need to worry about. BTW you can pigtail if you like. Depending on what size conduit you run will depend on how many conductors are allowed in the conduit. You'll be fine no matter how you do it really. There is not much to this. If you need a wiring diagram let me know. Also you need WR and TR GFCI receptacles... Hope that helps some. Oh and THHN is normally dual rated to THHN/THWN... Edited May 23, 2020 by Birdsnester FEW3 and gellfex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Cambria Posted May 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 5 mins ago, Birdsnester said: Hi, I am an electrical inspector for NYC. I am assuming you don't need a license to work on your house, and in lot's of areas you don't. Ok so, first you cannot exit the house legally with romex. You should run UF cable through the wall into the switched receptacle box. So, that is two conductors and a ground. From there to the two gang box you need a ground wire (green), an ungrounded wire (hot, usually black), a Neutral (white) and a switchleg (usually red). So, from the single gang box to the two gang box you will need a Green, Black, Red, and white wire. The black wire will feed the one side of the switch and the unswitched receptacle, the red wire will come off the other terminal of the switch to feed your switched receptacle, the white wire will be the neutral wire for both receptacles. If your boxes are exposed to water like rain you will need in use covers which allows a cord to be plugged in at all times with the cover closed. If they are under an overhang and are not subject to water you can use standard outdoor covers. If I were you I would use all PVC boxes and conduit to eliminate the need for grounding metal boxes. Just one less Very Important thing you will not need to worry about. BTW you can pigtail if you like. Depending on what size conduit you run will depend on how many conductors are allowed in the conduit. You'll be fine no matter how you do it really. There is not much to this. If you need a wiring diagram let me know. Also you need WR and TR GFCI receptacles... Hope that helps some. Oh and THHN is normally dual rated to THHN/THWN... Thanks, this is the most helpful. 1. For extra clarity i planned to put conduit through the wall that will be screwed directly into the back of the outlet box where it will switch to thhn. Is this no good? 2. I plan to mark the switched wire with tape as I didnt want to buy a 4th color. Is this ok? 3. The boxes will be grounded via pig tails but now I wish I bought pvc. I already too the shrink wrap off them so I'm not returning them. 4. I have in use covers not sure the proper name but they can close when something is plugged in. 5. The outlets are TRWR I'm not positive I have the right switch. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdsnester Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 min ago, Patrick Cambria said: Thanks, this is the most helpful. 1. For extra clarity i planned to put conduit through the wall that will be screwed directly into the back of the outlet box where it will switch to thhn. Is this no good? 2. I plan to mark the switched wire with tape as I didnt want to buy a 4th color. Is this ok? 3. The boxes will be grounded via pig tails but now I wish I bought pvc. I already too the shrink wrap off them so I'm not returning them. 4. I have in use covers not sure the proper name but they can close when something is plugged in. 5. The outlets are TRWR I'm not positive I have the right switch. Thanks again. Ah gotcha. 1. Good 2. It's fine .. 3. You should ground the box first with the branch circuit ground wire. NEC 250.146 4. Can't go wrong with the covers that you bought NEC 406.8 5. TR and WR are required NEC 406.8 and 406.11 FEW3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Cambria Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 Is this ok as is? (First photo) It's 38" from the bottom of the upper box to the top of the lower box. Or do I need to install offsets and clam to wall? Upper box is secured with hardy backer screws and lower is secured with tap on screws. I went with PVC boxes as suggested. All unused plugs and fitting are siliconed. Ps incase anyone wants to know why I'm putting the upper outlet and making it switchable is because I'm putting plug in string lights and they don't have an on/off. The lower outlet is for my pellet grill that used to be on my deck above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_L Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 32 mins ago, Patrick Cambria said: Is this ok as is? (First photo) It's 38" from the bottom of the upper box to the top of the lower box. Or do I need to install offsets and clam to wall? Upper box is secured with hardy backer screws and lower is secured with tap on screws. I went with PVC boxes as suggested. All unused plugs and fitting are siliconed. Ps incase anyone wants to know why I'm putting the upper outlet and making it switchable is because I'm putting plug in string lights and they don't have an on/off. The lower outlet is for my pellet grill that used to be on my deck above. No offset needed. Just a small kick from the stucco to the siding. I would also put a conduit strap about 1’ from the lower box on the stucco. Do you know what a kick looks like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Cambria Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 6 mins ago, D_L said: No offset needed. Just a small kick from the stucco to the siding. I would also put a conduit strap about 1’ from the lower box on the stucco. Do you know what a kick looks like? I don't know what a kick is. I do have straps / conduit clamps available. Here is the wiring feel free to correct anything i did bad. The red taped wire is the switched and will be the hot of the upper box outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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