Clowsher

Sink Tip vs Full Sinking Line for Casting into Rips from Boat?

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This thread is comical at this point. 

 

It doesn't really matter anyway. The fishing at Monomoy is a shell of what it used to be.

 

Should have been here 15 years ago.

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11 hours ago, Strat said:

This thread is comical at this point. 

 

It doesn't really matter anyway. The fishing at Monomoy is a shell of what it used to be.

 

Should have been here 15 years ago.

I actually was there 15 years ago.

However, in those days it was my father who forced me to go and drive the boat while he fished.

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Chiming in here (even though some people clearly would prefer this thread came to an end!) 

 

I remember seeing a couple threads on here about the Rio OBS WFI/S6 Tropical vs Coldwater and I believe the consensus was that they are the same exact line in different boxes.  

 

Not sure there's a more divisive line in all of fly fishing. It clearly just comes down to personal preference/style. Some people don't consider it fly fishing to launch a 30ft head 100 feet or water load and dump 60 feet. To each their own, I guess. I fish the 9I/S6 often in both Southern CA and on the Cape and I find it very useful for many different situations. I will say that the new version (with braided running line) has far less coiling and tangling problems than the old version, so as long as you don't have the old clear running line version you should be better off in the lower temps. 

 

I also have the Rio Striper 300gr and quite like it. It's fairly similar to the OBS but a longer head which can make it a little heavy for many 8 weights (that's what Rio suggests). Not sure if that's why some people don't like it, but I dig it. 

 

Nothing to add to the Monomoy Rips convo. Dying to give it a try but haven't been yet!

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Yup, that's the braided running line. I usually give it one or two false casts so I'm carrying the head and just a few feet of running line outside the rod tip and then give it a big double haul to shoot it out there. Takes a little getting used to but it gets the job done and sinks fast. However, like I said, I've never fished the rips so no idea if it's a good line for that situation. 

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43 mins ago, codyjorge said:

Yup, that's the braided running line. I usually give it one or two false casts so I'm carrying the head and just a few feet of running line outside the rod tip and then give it a big double haul to shoot it out there. Takes a little getting used to but it gets the job done and sinks fast. However, like I said, I've never fished the rips so no idea if it's a good line for that situation. 

I will give it a shot and, knowing me, will probably get the other lines to try as well.

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Cool. The one thing I would avoid, as others have mentioned, is the sink-tip lines with running floating lines. I've never found a use for them in saltwater. 

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1 hour ago, codyjorge said:

Cool. The one thing I would avoid, as others have mentioned, is the sink-tip lines with running floating lines. I've never found a use for them in saltwater. 

Well actually, it seems that a majority of people are suggesting exactly that. The Scientific Anglers Sonar Sink 25. Did I miss something?

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I saw a few people suggest SA Sonar and I'm sure it works fine. Seemed to me the consensus was FULL SINK and 400gr+ which sounds right to me. The tricky thing with floating running line in heavy current is it creates a hinge point so when the line straightens out, its more likely to pull that sink tip towards the surface rather than keeping it down. It's not the end of the world, but it can work against you a little. 

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18 hours ago, codyjorge said:

I saw a few people suggest SA Sonar and I'm sure it works fine. Seemed to me the consensus was FULL SINK and 400gr+ which sounds right to me. The tricky thing with floating running line in heavy current is it creates a hinge point so when the line straightens out, its more likely to pull that sink tip towards the surface rather than keeping it down. It's not the end of the world, but it can work against you a little. 

I am curious as well. Would the floating running line hinder getting down in a 20 ft rip? Does the floating running line assist with casting distance? 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Any line regardless of sink rate will fish just under the surface as soon as it goes tight in a 3 or 4knot rip if the boat is static.

You’ll have to drift the fly down to the rip line with the boat to allow it sink.

Edited by JRT

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On 5/14/2020 at 7:02 PM, codyjorge said:

I saw a few people suggest SA Sonar and I'm sure it works fine. Seemed to me the consensus was FULL SINK and 400gr+ which sounds right to me. The tricky thing with floating running line in heavy current is it creates a hinge point so when the line straightens out, its more likely to pull that sink tip towards the surface rather than keeping it down. It's not the end of the world, but it can work against you a little. 

400 Grain line on the OP's slower  9wt  fly rod? Might want to try 350 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

On 5/15/2020 at 1:47 PM, Mallard1100 said:

I am curious as well. Would the floating running line hinder getting down in a 20 ft rip? Does the floating running line assist with casting distance? 

With a head length of 25' feet? Nope. 

Edited by CaryGreene

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On 5/7/2020 at 10:06 AM, CaryGreene said:

Hi Mikey,

 

How are you doing over there on the other side of the pond brother? Hope all is well. I do admit I'm human & that I sometimes do make a mistake. Not with flyline however. LOL

 

Folks, I would like to assure you that no point was missed. If we read back in the thread, we note that the Original Poster has indicated he will be fishing in the Northeast (Monomoy). He has also stated he is using a Rio Outbound Short WF9I/S6 sink tip 9 WT - which is a TROPICAL fly line for use in warm water. The line's tip sinks at 6.0 ips & as Mikey points out, does feature an Intermediate Running Line (which sinks at 1.5 ips). 

 

5eb4135f5a454_Screenshot2020-05-07at9_55_27AM.png.fd4e84e11eba4faaa1c6e28a7012abc5.png

 

Would this be the appropriate line to fish in the Norhteast, from a boat? NOPE --Tropical Fly Lines suffer from extreme memory in Cold Water. The Outbound line features extremely fine diameter running line which will coil, tangle and create constant birds nests while casting in the Northeast. Imagine dealing with that? 

 

Guys above are also recommending the Rio Leviathan line for this application. Leviathan Line is also a Tropical Fly Line. Again - WRONG CHOICE fellers!

 

The opimal line to recommend would have an EVEN FASTER sink rate --AND-- be engineered for Cold Temperatures. Enter the Scientific Anglers Sonar Sink 25 Sinking Head Fly Line specifically engineered for coldwater. The SS 25 features a Sink Rate of 8.0 ips. If using a 9wt fly rod, which the OP is using, we would pair it with the SS350. The extra 2 ips that this fly line offers, vs the Rio Outbound Short, is noticeable in a ripping tide. 

 

5eb4158909270_Screenshot2020-05-07at10_04_31AM.png.4df32ec697da4bef5a9eeb9fe3833a17.png

 

As most knowledgeable anglers know, water on the surface moves considerably slower than water in the middle of the water column. The cuts on the Monomoy Flats are over 20 feet deep. They create mini channels and water "rips" through them at fast rates. The tides of Monomoy average 2 knots, but in these cuts (where the fish are located by the way), the water moves considerably faster. The Cape averages tides of 8 to 15 feet folks. Water moves extremely fast when channeled into funnel points. Getting Down is paramount. 

 

Therefore, we want a fly line that sinks as fast as is available while also providing tangle free performance. I don't know a single guide who would recommend the Rio Outbound Short --or-- the Leviathan fly line for fishing in the northeast. 

 

I would highly/strongly recommend that the OP RETURN the Rio line un-used for a full refund & then purchase the correct fly line, which would be the Scientific Anglers Sonar Sink 25. 

 

If the OP wants to consider a Rio line that is engineered for Striper fishing in the northeast, he may wish to look at the correct Rio product for this applicaiton - which would be the Rio In-Touch Striper 30' Sink Tip 350grain which would sink at 8.2 ips. I would not recommend this line over the Scientific Anglers Sonar Sink for two reasons.

 

5eb41988806e7_Screenshot2020-05-07at10_21_25AM.png.8dd59b0f9c72cb4fd60fa424ecdac769.png

 

Reason 1 - Terrible taper. The Rio In Touch tapers don't cast as nicely as the Scientific Anglers tapers. When fishing from a boat, we first locate fish. They will bust anywhere & everywhere. The goal is to cast fast & get down. We don't want to sling the line back & forth and deliver the fly delicately. We want a fast pick up & drop. Scientific Anglers Sonar lines run circles around Rio products when you need to pull the trigger fast. I did a full review of teh In-Touch lines a few years ago & myself and three of my guide friends all unanimously agreed that they just cast like crap. The taper sucks. No other way to say it. Don't take my word for it. Compare it (I mean actually fish with it) to the Airflo Cold-Salt line below & you will rapidly see why I am saying this. 

 

Reason 2 - Superior Jacket. The Scientific Anglers Coldwater lines feature a bulletproof Jacket. They are not prone to cracking & if rinsed and maintained, many northeast guides have reported to me that Scientific Anglers Sonar lines seem to last longer than most others. 

 

I have also narowly ruled out the only Airflo product that would compete with the Sonar Sink line & I say that with ***asteriks***

 

That would be Airflo Cold-Salt Sink Flyline. I LOVE the 40' head on this line & the taper is the best casting, best handling Northeast line I have fished with. It is an amazing, long lasting & wonderful casting fly line. I'd even rate it by far as the best of the bunch for all around fishing here in the Northeast. 

 

5eb41200b22e4_Screenshot2020-05-07at9_49_31AM.png.762ff08e124a535cfb04ea31b04ab046.png

 

However, the Sonar Sink 350 grain sinks 1 ips faster & has that quick draw head for fast punches, which as discussed are commonplace when fishing off a boat. If the OP were to chose the Airflo Cold-Salt Sink line due to the potential of other applications not afore mentioned, he'd be very happy with it & no doubt it would/does run circles around the Rio Outbound Short that he's currently contemplating using. 

 

Also, regarding drifting. they make Trolling motors for saltwater, which are used to hold position in current (with remote co-pilot controls). We actually cast & let the fly line swing at times - as well as drift.

 

Depends on what we're doing & where the boat is positioned.  Oftentimes, drifting into rocks is not an option, so holding position is the key to reaching fish in cuts & fast moving rips. 

 

Drifting through the cuts of Monomoy during riptide causes most boats to get beached. Hence the need for the trolling motor. The same is true in salt ponds & estuaries all over the Cape, CT & RI. Drifting is primarily an open water tactic. 

 

I'm not convinced that the the Airflo line above is the same as what is shown in the taper diagram.  On my that is the diagram for the Striper Ridge which comes in float/int/sink.  This is what I received when I ordered the sinking line.  It seems like a straight shot of sinking line with no taper.  I could be wrong but it doesn't seem anything like the taper diagram. 

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