gooner

question about intergraded running lines and shooting heads

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Those are basically shooting heads integrated w/ the shooting line,hence the term "integrated line".

They cast as shooting heads;once you get the 30' head out the tip you better shoot or the whole thing will collapse.

If you are inclined to do a lot of false casting a line w/ a long head might be to your liking.

 

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9 hours ago, slip n slide said:

Those are basically shooting heads integrated w/ the shooting line,hence the term "integrated line".

They cast as shooting heads;once you get the 30' head out the tip you better shoot or the whole thing will collapse.

If you are inclined to do a lot of false casting a line w/ a long head might be to your liking.

 

basically i want to achieve maximum distance  and better penetration through the wind...

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Gooner

 

Short head lines are great in following wind and cross winds.

 

They are not good at penetrating strong head winds in terms of distance. Better mind if you over line by one line weight.

 

You cant shoot much if any line into a strong  head wind. You can only cast the head length.  This is why longer head fly lines cast better into a wind.

 

The short heads are great for firing off quick casts.
 

Mike

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1 hour ago, Mike Oliver said:

Gooner

 

Short head lines are great in following wind and cross winds.

 

They are not good at penetrating strong head winds in terms of distance. Better mind if you over line by one line weight.

 

You cant shoot much if any line into a strong  head wind. You can only cast the head length.  This is why longer head fly lines cast better into a wind.

 

The short heads are great for firing off quick casts.
 

Mike

i thought that shooting heads had the tendency to cut well through the wind. better than a WF line. i didnt spoke about short head lines against long head lines in the wind but shooting head against WF fly lines into the wind! thanks for the reply!

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Gooner

 

Ok reason I spoke about short head and long head is that most nearly every commercially available shooting head will be 30 feet long which is pretty short.

 

As it is very difficult to shoot line against a head wind this means that a short head shooting head is not going to be a good line for distance  into the wind.

 A shooting head say 42 feet long which is typical for a WF fly line head length would be the same performance nearly as a wf line. It is perverse that against a wind a SH will perform better with a std fly line running line rather than mono.

To get a long belly shooting head you have to make them yourself. But you end up with a WF line so not much point.

 

What gets you through the wind is a heavier fly line and good technique.

The SH with mono backing is very good for distance in a cross wind or tail wind.

 

Mike

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I dunno about all those opinions.

 

Since I haven't thrown a line with a head longer than 30' in more than 20 years, and half the time throwing pure heads with mono running line, much of that time in one of the windiest places in North America, I would love to stand next to those posting above me here and throw into a 20 mph headwind, same fly, and see how my casts match up.

 

Not saying I like it and seek it out.  Not saying it doesn't take special technique with a learning curve.  Not saying it isn't work.  I'd rather do it wading (low to the water) than up in a boat console (high).  But....a 9' SH rod, get it low and keep it low, hard, fast, narrow loop, weighted fly to straighten out the leader.  Low backcast, lower forward cast no more than a foot over the water  It takes good to excellent technique.

 

No one is talking certified distances under equal circumstances, wind strength, angles to the wind......so we would have to be side-by-side.  I'm willing to be proven wrong.

 

But I gave up on the longer heads decades ago, partly because of my awareness that the extra false cast and longer line being false cast up there exposed to the wind created so much trouble and wind effect that was un-necessary.........  and haven't felt in the least compromised.

 

Always lots of compromises, just picking up a fly rod instead of a gear rod being the first of the many following insanities.  We are all practicing a chosen handicap.....just for the fun of it.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Peter

 

Hang on a low back cast but then a high forward cast no more than one foot above the water is semantics. 
 

Is the wind velocity that much less one foot above the water than say three feet.

 

I will happily take you up on your challenge. My Airflow 10 wt long head against your  30 foot head of the same mass. It would be fun. Loser pays for dinner.

 

False casting. Ok in a strong head wind then I may need two false casts. I don’t need two with a cross or trailing wind . This presumes a decent amount of line is left on the water before the casts starts.

 

20 mph wind measured with an anemometer is around a Force 5/6 on the Beaufort scale. I can’t recall seeing anyone casting into head winds of that velocity. 
Beach tends to be void of fly anglers in those conditions. I believe we have all over estimated wind speeds. I was shocked when HT produced an anemometer  one day in Buzzards Bay. It recorded a wind speed of 12 mph. No one else was on the beach simply because it was so hard to cast. I would have sworn it was way more than 12 but heh like so often I was wrong.

I will readily concede that a 30 foot head is easier to cast to 30 feet than a 42 foot head to cast to 42 into a strong head wind which is strong enough to prevent line shoot. The winner for me is the longer head if distance is the main criteria.

But we really should do it when I return. Be fun.

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Oliver

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Mike,

"Is the wind velocity that much less one foot above the water than say three feet."

 

ABSOLUTELY!!  When at my recreational house in the Columbia River Gorge.....a world class destination for windsurfers and other wind-dependent watersports......and historically the world's #1 salmon and steelhead river......I watch flocks of seagulls, geese, etc.. flying directly into the wind 1/2 to 1 foot over the water on almost a daily basis.  They aren't down there for the fun of it.  It's called laminar flow, and the closer to the surface, and the more irregular the surface ((waves!) the slower the wind.

 

Not only is there less wind down there, but with a shorter head being "shot", there is less NON-moving running line (already turned over) hanging up there in the wind to be blown around.  AND, as the running line is smaller diameter (as opposed to the longer head line AND the running line behind it which must be a heavier diameter to support propagating a loop) the wind has less effect on it.

 

You know when you've done it right since the whole thing snaps right out there.....low.....as though there is hardly any wind at all.  Which is my point.

 

You are on for a dinner bet.  Just so long as it doesn't have to be british-english food.

Edited by Peter Patricelli

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The best I’ve  found was to make ur own head out of L.C , try. Various lengths

until you find which is best  for you . Tha LC cuts wind the best however the best cast into wind is the reverse !haul . Mono running line is a must for a achieving

distance easily .’

 

 

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Peter

 

Whats wrong with Brit / English food. I am not keen on Italian or French or Greek. But don’t mind American cooking. Quite keen on Indian which gives a good excuse for plenty of cold beers. 
Going to look up Laminer  flow sounds interesting.

Signs of a recovery with my latest health battle. Just hope it is sustainable.

 

Mike

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15 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

Whats wrong with Brit / English food.

 

Nothing. There's a reason the Monaco royals send their private jet to Anstruther for take out fish and chips!

 

Chippy.jpeg.8f8c6b48faac9f89411440d0c2045158.jpeg

 

Steve Culton

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On 2/29/2020 at 8:48 PM, Capt. Lou said:

The best I’ve  found was to make ur own head out of L.C , try. Various lengths

until you find which is best  for you . Tha LC cuts wind the best however the best cast into wind is the reverse !haul . Mono running line is a must for a achieving

distance easily .’

 

 

Reverse Haul????

Anyone!

Herb

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