jason colby

PETITION BY CLF FOR MORATORIUM ON ATLANTIC COD

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39 posts in this topic

27 mins ago, MakoMike said:

Do yourself a favor any never buy a dragger, with your math you'll be broke in a week. Do you realize what you even typed? You would throw $2,500 worth of fish (850 pounds at $3) overboard in order to spend more money to get an additional $500 worth of fish. Great businessman there. So by your logic you'd rather make less money ($1,000 for two tows) than you can make in one tow ($2,500 for the smaller fish plus the $400 for the jumbos = $2,900 total) and spend more time and money doing it! 

 

I must be missing something because I can't believe you are that dumb.

 

As far as the rest of your complaint goes, that complained about action (or maybe inaction) is the direct result of the so called green groups getting congress to mandate that the SSCs have the final say on how many fish can be caught. The SSC sets the TAC and all of the other numbers flow off of that. The councils, NMFS, GARFO, etc. etc. cannot change the TAC set by the SSC and the mandate to the councils, NMFS etc. is that the ACL be harvested without exceeding the ACL. That's the law (Magnusson-Stevens) if you don't like it get it changed, but those are the rules all of the managers have to live by. IMHO much better than the ASMFC which has no enforceable rules.

I guess I have to make it simple for you to understand by scaling it down for you:

"Sushi-Jumbo's" are returning $10/pound and large/medium's are returning $1/pound. 

A: Little Mikey took his dragger out in Rhode Island Sound where he is allowed to retain 10 pounds of summer flounder a day. On his first tow he catches 100 pounds of fluke and he retains 5 pounds of the $10 stuff and tosses the other 95 pounds of $1 stuff overboard dead. He repeats the procedure and gets his 10 pound quota for a $100 return. (190 pounds of dead discards)

B: Little Mikey keeps the one 5 pound jumbo and another 5 pounds of $1 stuff and goes home with only $51 worth of fish. (90 pounds of dead discards)

What should Mikey do?

 

The point is that for a little extra effort (another hour tow) a inshore dragger can substantially increase his daily take. Now factor in the offshore boats with 1000 to 2000 daily allowances (January-sometime in March) and "Houston, we have a problem".

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4 mins ago, jason colby said:

I guess I have to make it simple for you to understand by scaling it down for you:

"Sushi-Jumbo's" are returning $10/pound and large/medium's are returning $1/pound. 

A: Little Mikey took his dragger out in Rhode Island Sound where he is allowed to retain 10 pounds of summer flounder a day. On his first tow he catches 100 pounds of fluke and he retains 5 pounds of the $10 stuff and tosses the other 95 pounds of $1 stuff overboard dead. He repeats the procedure and gets his 10 pound quota for a $100 return. (190 pounds of dead discards)

B: Little Mikey keeps the one 5 pound jumbo and another 5 pounds of $1 stuff and goes home with only $51 worth of fish. (90 pounds of dead discards)

What should Mikey do?

 

The point is that for a little extra effort (another hour tow) a inshore dragger can substantially increase his daily take. Now factor in the offshore boats with 1000 to 2000 daily allowances (January-sometime in March) and "Houston, we have a problem".

Why don't you just stick with the idiocy you posted the first time. No way on god's green earth that jumbos are going to be worth ten times what mediums are, the market just doesn't work that way. Your post is invalid, there is no realistic set of economics that will support your inane theory. A I said earlier, most of the RI boats won't even untie the lines to go drag for fluke, it just doesn't pay when the landings are limited to 100 pounds a day or less. They'll only make a tow fr fluke if they are out fishing for something else anyway, and then it will be one tow on their way back to the dock. Its basic economics. 

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43 mins ago, MakoMike said:

Why don't you just stick with the idiocy you posted the first time. No way on god's green earth that jumbos are going to be worth ten times what mediums are, the market just doesn't work that way. Your post is invalid, there is no realistic set of economics that will support your inane theory. A I said earlier, most of the RI boats won't even untie the lines to go drag for fluke, it just doesn't pay when the landings are limited to 100 pounds a day or less. They'll only make a tow fr fluke if they are out fishing for something else anyway, and then it will be one tow on their way back to the dock. Its basic economics. 

I believe you are intentionally not acknowledging the point. Of course the numbers I gave are inane as you couldn't understand them when I used real numbers.

Explain the gillnetters off Newport I see every summer with 1800 or 2400 feet of net that they keep out there all the time and I see them picking the nets while I'm drifting nearby and they are only keeping the jumbos and do not try to hide the fact that everyone sees them dumping dead fish for hours at a time.

Explain how I see sometimes 30 draggers in line of sight at one time working in Vineyard sound for fluke? When the fluke show up the recs get into them for a few days and then the draggers hit them and they are gone for the rest of the summer in one day. No Mike, don't bother explaining, it's hardly worth it. Basic economics, I guess...

The only basic economics here is that the draggers put themselves out of business and take the recs out in the process. 

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23 mins ago, jason colby said:

I believe you are intentionally not acknowledging the point. Of course the numbers I gave are inane as you couldn't understand them when I used real numbers.

 

I could point to a number of abuses in the fishery, but your examples are not one of them. You are parroting a fisherman's tale that just has no basis in reality. Like the notion that there are all those great big breeder striped bass out just over the three mile line. Go back and explain to us all how your original numbers make any economic sense, or any sense at all for that matter. Do you really believe that draggers are so dumb that they would intentionally minimize their income? 

 

Now add in the fact that you derailed your own thread about the CLF effort to impose a COD moratorium, by posting all kinds of nonsense about fluke fishing. You asked me for my opinion and I gave it to you, then you posited a position to try and blame commercials for all of the woes of the fishery and when I pointed out to you that your "real" numbers couldn't justify the actions you describe, you say that I don't understand the numbers? Someone around here is so blinded by their hate toward other fishermen that they can't even do basic math, and that someone isn't me.

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3 mins ago, MakoMike said:

I could point to a number of abuses in the fishery, but your examples are not one of them. You are parroting a fisherman's tale that just has no basis in reality. Like the notion that there are all those great big breeder striped bass out just over the three mile line. Go back and explain to us all how your original numbers make any economic sense, or any sense at all for that matter. Do you really believe that draggers are so dumb that they would intentionally minimize their income? 

 

Now add in the fact that you derailed your own thread about the CLF effort to impose a COD moratorium, by posting all kinds of nonsense about fluke fishing. You asked me for my opinion and I gave it to you, then you posited a position to try and blame commercials for all of the woes of the fishery and when I pointed out to you that your "real" numbers couldn't justify the actions you describe, you say that I don't understand the numbers? Someone around here is so blinded by their hate toward other fishermen that they can't even do basic math, and that someone isn't me.

The problem is management and you are in management and you are the problem. 

Logic. To say I am imagining these issues is ridiculous! I'm willing to bet that a large portion of the people who are reading this have experienced the immediate depletion of (name it: cod, fluke, flounder, haddock, etc.) when a small number of draggers works an area where rec fishermen have been fishing with steady results for a while before the draggers wipe the area out. I'm also will to bet that YOU have experienced the same thing and here you are telling me it's a fantasy?

That you fail to see the problem is an understatement of the highest order! I was at Mel True's fishing flea market last week and I met a guy there (Henry M) who was a salmon gill netter in Alaska for decades and he was also on the fishery council there for many years. He told me that over the years, he was offered MILLIONS of dollars in cash to vote "pro commercial". He also said that he did not take any of that money and voted what he thought was right but he was sure that a lot of people were taking the money.

I believe YOU are taking the money MIKE!

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1 hour ago, jason colby said:

The problem is management and you are in management and you are the problem. 

Logic. To say I am imagining these issues is ridiculous! I'm willing to bet that a large portion of the people who are reading this have experienced the immediate depletion of (name it: cod, fluke, flounder, haddock, etc.) when a small number of draggers works an area where rec fishermen have been fishing with steady results for a while before the draggers wipe the area out. I'm also will to bet that YOU have experienced the same thing and here you are telling me it's a fantasy?

That you fail to see the problem is an understatement of the highest order! I was at Mel True's fishing flea market last week and I met a guy there (Henry M) who was a salmon gill netter in Alaska for decades and he was also on the fishery council there for many years. He told me that over the years, he was offered MILLIONS of dollars in cash to vote "pro commercial". He also said that he did not take any of that money and voted what he thought was right but he was sure that a lot of people were taking the money.

I believe YOU are taking the money MIKE!

 

O.K. once more into the realm of idiocy.

 

So you have been pushed out of a fishing area by other fishermen. Well, a big boo-hoo. It happens, put on your big boy pants and deal with it, just like me and the thousands of fishermen before and after me.

 

1 hour ago, jason colby said:

I believe YOU are taking the money MIKE!

That statement can get you in trouble on many levels. 1st of all, I have never represented anyone but me in all this fishery management B.S. I have never taken a dime, except for the reimbursement of expenses from the NMFS/Councils/ASMFC. I spend my time and, often, my own money on this crap because I believe it is important and I feel I owe it to the resource that I have enjoyed since I was old enough to walk. But let's be perfectly clear here, you are accusing me of a crime in selling my influence to someone for money. That is either liable or defamation of character (I'm not sure which) and if you persist I will take you to court where you can either try to prove your case, which you can't or you will pay for my boat's upkeep for a few seasons. Capice?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

14 hours ago, MakoMike said:

O.K. once more into the realm of idiocy.

 

So you have been pushed out of a fishing area by other fishermen. Well, a big boo-hoo. It happens, put on your big boy pants and deal with it, just like me and the thousands of fishermen before and after me.

First of all I did not say anything about this topic but now that you mention it, this is the same "conversation" you and I had on another site in 2012/2013 where I was speaking out against the increased flounder quotas and you and your buddy Paul were countering me with your support of said increases. You each claimed that there were plenty of flounder and the increases were justified and that I was imagining things about the recreational flounder fishing being at risk. 

Well guess what? YOU WERE WRONG!

Quote

 

That statement can get you in trouble on many levels. 1st of all, I have never represented anyone but me in all this fishery management B.S. I have never taken a dime, except for the reimbursement of expenses from the NMFS/Councils/ASMFC. I spend my time and, often, my own money on this crap because I believe it is important and I feel I owe it to the resource that I have enjoyed since I was old enough to walk. But let's be perfectly clear here, you are accusing me of a crime in selling my influence to someone for money. That is either liable or defamation of character (I'm not sure which) and if you persist I will take you to court where you can either try to prove your case, which you can't or you will pay for my boat's upkeep for a few seasons. Capice?

Last time I checked, The U.S. Constitution protects "free speech" and I started off my statement (that you find so offensive) with "I believe". *

Edited by TimS
No name calling

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MakoMike,

I  fairly tolerant, and don't like sticking my nose in a heated discussion.  But the insults and name calling won't fly. Simply because Jason doesn't agree with you, that doesn't allow you to call him names.

Thanks. :)

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1 hour ago, bob_G said:

MakoMike,

I  fairly tolerant, and don't like sticking my nose in a heated discussion.  But the insults and name calling won't fly. Simply because Jason doesn't agree with you, that doesn't allow you to call him names.

Thanks. :)

Bob, I just read the posts on this page, the only person that called anyone any names was Jason - he called Mike a POS...after he told him to ‘go screw’. Am I missing something? 

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52 mins ago, TimS said:

Bob, I just read the posts on this page, the only person that called anyone any names was Jason - he called Mike a POS...after he told him to ‘go screw’. Am I missing something? 

No Tim, apparently I'm the one who missed something. Mea culpa. I missed the the 'go screw' remark, and simply didn't recognize what POS meant. Sorry, not up to speed on my internet cuss words. :)

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Knew This thread was gonna go south the moment I saw it........I refrained from posting because....well you know.......Just want to remind everyone we are friends here......

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7 hours ago, bob_G said:

MakoMike,

I  fairly tolerant, and don't like sticking my nose in a heated discussion.  But the insults and name calling won't fly. Simply because Jason doesn't agree with you, that doesn't allow you to call him names.

Thanks. :)

Where did I call him a name? I said his math was dumb, do you dispute that? 

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1 min ago, MakoMike said:

Where did I call him a name? I said his math was dumb, do you dispute that? 

I said I missed something, and admitted the error. That's what mea culpa means.  Do you want me to send you flowers?

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3 mins ago, bob_G said:

I said I missed something, and admitted the error. That's what mea culpa means.  Do you want me to send you flowers?

Not at all. I thought what you missed was him calling me a POS. Not trying to bust 'em, but how do you miss something I didn't type?

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13 mins ago, MakoMike said:

Not at all. I thought what you missed was him calling me a POS. Not trying to bust 'em, but how do you miss something I didn't type?

I woke up early this AM, checked SOL. Read this thread, saw it was getting contentious. You guys began double and triple quoting each other, and I simply got the authors mixed up.  I explained it to Tim 

Plus I was unfamiliar with the POS abbreviation.

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