FishHawk II

Slot Limits

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Until the entire fishery is governed by a single set of rules any individual state restrictions are a waste of time. The entire fishery from Maine to N.C. should have the same regulations. Remember we talking a migratory fish that travels the upper to mid length of the east coast. One set of rules to govern all is the only realistic answer to rebuilding the fishery. Personally I'd make it one fish per day of no greater than twenty inches in length. this would protect the breeders and still allow meat fishermen something to bring home.

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11 hours ago, Pauleye said:

It’s 1 @ 28”. That’s the reg we are replacing.  Of course 1 @ 36 or 38 is superior. They aint gonna do that. Heck, I think a 3 to 5 year moratorium coast wide is best. The proposed minimum length will be lower than 36”. I want the 30 plus pound fish protected and laying eggs. 

FWIW Pat Kelliher was the CCA president during those times. 
Drove the wheels clean off the bus. From a lobbying standpoint. 

Edited by Linesidesonthefly

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I personally am not in favor of slot limits for stripers unless the slot were something crazy like 36-38".  Slots work for reds and snook but it has been demonstrated that it's not a good idea for bass, not to mention that we already know that 1@36" has worked.  One reason a slot like 24-28" or 22-24" or whatever is ineffective is that we need to protect the 2015 year class and those fish are getting to that point.  2011 was the last good year class and they were wiped out mostly by maryland's bs 19" law but the rest of the coast as well.  

If we're going to talk about other fish in other states look what Florida has done with tarpon and bonefish or even grouper and red snaps.  Tarpon and bones are strictly no kill and grouper and red snapper have strict limits and closed seasons for killing them.  They realize how valuable these fish are and protect them.  

My preference would be to make the bass fishery catch and release in perpetuity or at least 5 years, short of that make it 1@36" again. 

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19 hours ago, FishHawk II said:

Ok so if you replace the managers who will take over there responsibility? In essence wont they be managers with a different title?

The answer isn't to replace the managers, it's to limit their discretion.  Right now, they are under no legal obligation to end overfishing, rebuild overfished stocks or even adhere to the best available science.  It was a telling moment at the last Striped Bass Management Board meeting when one of the Commissioners asked what the total coastwide reduction in fishing mortality would be if all of the states'

 conservation equivalency proposals were adopted, and the Technical Committee rep answered that they didn't know, because the states were proposing so many different combinations of potential regulations.

 

The federal fishery management councils were originally in the same place, and demonstrated the same lack of success in ending overfishing and rebuilding overfished stocks.  Then Congress passed the Sustainable Fisheries Act of 1996, which required the councils to end overfishing and rebuild overfished stocks within 10 years if possible, and fisheries began to recover on almost every coast.  The one big exception was New England, where the New England Fishery Management Council kept avoiding hard-poundage quotas and other such output controls in favor of soft input controls such as days at sea and trip limits, which allowed overfishing to continue.

 

So the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Reauthorization Act of 2006 sought to plug the loophole, and require that councils set annual catch limits for every species, and hold fishermen accountable when those limits are exceeded.  Again, fish stocks showed a positive response, although some, such as cod, were in such a deep hole that they are still in real trouble.

 

But the feds have shown the path to management success.  Place the same legal requirements on the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, and inshore stocks, including striped bass, will probably respond positively, too.

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22 hours ago, Drew C. said:

Do you have any examples of the ‘science’ that supports this?

Check out the redfish stocks in the GofM. Slot limits work.

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5 mins ago, ifsteve said:

Check out the redfish stocks in the GofM. Slot limits work.

Do you have any science that says slots are the reason or is it only your opinion?

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21 mins ago, Roccus7 said:

To those of you who don't like slots, how about a re-edumacation???  A mid-low 30" high end cap is CRITICAL!!

 

 

striper slaughter.jpg

Yes, a slot would prevent because In the current fishery structure the slot fish would be decimated and they’d never escape the slot and get that big. 

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45 mins ago, Linesidesonthefly said:

FWIW Pat Kelliher was the CCA president during those times. 
Drove the wheels clean off the bus. From a lobbying standpoint. 

Not President, but Executive Director.  I believe the President was Brad Burns, who left CCA to found Stripers Forever (I know that Brad was CCA Maine's representative on CCA's national executive board, but I think he was either the state president or chairman, too).  Pat's job was to do whatever the chairman, president and state board told him to do; he wasn't the policymaker.

 

I was the Chairman of CCA New York at the time (I am no longer affiliated with the organization) and also Chairman of CCA's Atlantic States Fisheries Commission, and worked closely with the Maine delegation.  There were some "interesting" things going on there for a while, given the personalities involved, but one thing that I will say is that Pat was always trying to do the right thing for the fish, and trying to rise above some of the problems caused by what he was being told back home.  I think that his current chairmanship of the ASMFC is a good thing for us right now.

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8 mins ago, ifsteve said:

Check out the redfish stocks in the GofM. Slot limits work.

They don't work as well as people often claim.

 

I can show you articles about guides complaining about a decreasing abundance of reds on the west coast of Florida, while Texas' rules are so ineffective that hatcheries are needed to prop up the stock.  Louisiana redfish seem to be doing well, but Mississippi is, I believe, also investigating a hatchery option (not 100% sure about that).

 

And even if your assertion is correct, it's incomplete.  It should read "Slot limits work for red drum."  Management measures need to be tailored to the life history of the fish being managed, and red drum and striped bass have very different life histories.  No guarantee that a measure that works for one species is appropriate for the other; it might be right, it might not.

 

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9 mins ago, Drew C. said:

Do you have any science that says slots are the reason or is it only your opinion?

Every state in the GofM fishery has redfish slot limits. The fishery, at least where I fish is very healthy according to the state biologists. I can't say that slot limits will translate equally as well to striped bass.

 

But to be clear I USED to go to NE every year to fish for stripers with a buddy in Maine. I quit going because the fishing sucked. As far as I am concerned I'd make striped bass C&R only and I'd kill commercial fishing for stripers. 

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I was all-in for 1@35", believing that it would offer the best protection for the young fish recruiting into the fishery, giving them a chance to spawn a few times before being recruited into the fishery.  It wouldn't protect the oldest, largest fish, but given that the 2003 year class has already suffered some pretty severe attrition, and most of what's out there now will probably disappear in the next 3 to 5 years, I thought that protecting the upcoming year classes should get greater priority.

 

In addition, I felt that the higher minimum might deter a lot of those who weren't able to catch a 35" fish to shift effort onto something else, or stop fishing, and that such reduction in effort would also lower mortality.

 

However, now that ASMFC has adopted 28-35", I think that we should all be pushing hard for a coastwide standard, because a slot doesn't work too well if fish outside of the slot can still be killed somewhere along the course of their migration.  We're going to put more pressure on the newly-mature females than I would like, so over-slot fish are going to become more and more important, which may be a problem if release mortality spikes from gut-hooked bass in the bait fishery (hopefully, less of a problem once the circle hook rule is in place) and from anglers waving big fish in the air while somebody looks for a camera.

 

All in all, I expect Addendum VI and its slot to fall short of its goal of an 18% mortality reduction--unless a lack of bass causes effort to tank--but I'm hopeful that it won't miss by too much.

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2 hours ago, CWitek said:

Not President, but Executive Director.  I believe the President was Brad Burns, who left CCA to found Stripers Forever (I know that Brad was CCA Maine's representative on CCA's national executive board, but I think he was either the state president or chairman, too).  Pat's job was to do whatever the chairman, president and state board told him to do; he wasn't the policymaker.

 

I was the Chairman of CCA New York at the time (I am no longer affiliated with the organization) and also Chairman of CCA's Atlantic States Fisheries Commission, and worked closely with the Maine delegation.  There were some "interesting" things going on there for a while, given the personalities involved, but one thing that I will say is that Pat was always trying to do the right thing for the fish, and trying to rise above some of the problems caused by what he was being told back home.  I think that his current chairmanship of the ASMFC is a good thing for us right now.

Thank you for the recalibration. From what I recall from those days the slot was being sold to us based upon what happened in Florida with the Snooks and Reds. 
I’m here to say it didn’t work out like that. By the time I hung up fishing for Stripers we were seeing sub 12” fish as the typical catch. 

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No Bait! No Barbs! No Buckets! It starts with us not eating Striped Bass and properly handling and releasing them. Enforcement of any law implemented. Just because you “can” keep a fish for dinner doesn’t mean you should.

 

I support C&R only for Striped Bass. That’s what it’s come to. A slot removes a tremendous number of potential new fish. A min size is better because a 38” fish has already contributed a lot of eggs that the slot fish wouldn’t even get a chance to produce. It’s also just harder to find and catch those bigger fish.

 

seriously though, why can’t we stop eating Striped Bass? All the fishing I’ve done down south and in carribean is C&R and you pay $$ for a guide and it’s just understood that you don’t keep or eat the fish. Granted Tarpon and Bonefish are inedible lol but a culture change is needed if we want to ever be consistently catching big Striped Bass again.

 


 

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53 mins ago, Linesidesonthefly said:

Thank you for the recalibration. From what I recall from those days the slot was being sold to us based upon what happened in Florida with the Snooks and Reds. 
I’m here to say it didn’t work out like that. By the time I hung up fishing for Stripers we were seeing sub 12” fish as the typical catch. 

Yes.  The slot was a big Brad Burns issue.  He had a lot of influence with all of the CCA chapters at the time, and was trying to convince all of them to do the same thing.

 

I remember butting heads with the Chairman of CCA Connecticut at one point, who had contacted the New York fishery managers pushing for the slot, and was upset when I told him that it inappropriate for him to do so without first discussing the issue with his colleagues who actually lived and fished in New York.  He complained that I “wasn’t being helpful,” apparently never considering that other chapters might not agree with the gospel being pushed out of Maine at that time.

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